Debatecraft should add the rule where users are not allowed to violate free speech of other users

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Rated · 3 rounds
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Two weeks
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This debate will focus on if debatecraft should introduce a rule that users arent allowed to violate free speech of others. This rule would essentially be a consequentialist type rule where actions which result in reducing free speech of users in total are considered bad. This rule would of course be subject to interpretation by community, owner and mods, but couldnt be removed except by owner.

Round 1

1 of 3
avatar Pro #1

The less likely people are to debate opposite view, the more likely they are to become dumber and less informed. Sites which ban debate usually dont have much of intelligent discussion because opposite view and challenge is needed to grow intellectually.

 

Free speech already exists in many countries as part of their constitution, such as USA and Japan, where it cannot be easily changed by majority. But majority in many democratic countries was shown to vote in favor of censorship, such as in most of Europe and Asia. So majority is more wrong than right on this issue, in case free speech is shown to be objectively correct value in most cases.

 

Free speech by definition enables more expression, which enables more ideas to be discussed and debated, which improves wealth of knowledge. This is true by tautology, as enabling more knowledge to be spread increases wealth of knowledge. Knowledge is crucial in life for both education and success rate, so free speech is crucial for education and success rate.

 

Free speech is crucial for a debate site because it is both by definition essential to the purpose of the site and necessary for the site to function effectively and fairly.

 

1. Definition Argument: Free speech is by definition essential to the purpose of a debate site.

A debate site is, by definition, a platform where individuals engage in structured, public discourse to explore ideas, challenge assumptions, and reach conclusions through reasoned argument. The very act of debating requires participants to express their views, counter opposing arguments, and persuade others. Without free speech, the ability to do any of these would be severely restricted.

 

Opposite Argument: "A debate site does not require free speech because it is a controlled environment."

Counterargument: This opposite argument is false by definition. A controlled environment does not negate the need for free speech. In fact, the term "controlled environment" implies that there are rules and boundaries, but those rules must still allow for the expression of diverse viewpoints to fulfill the purpose of a debate. If the site were to restrict speech, it would not be a true debate site—it would be a monologue or a one-sided discussion. Therefore, the opposite argument contradicts the very definition of a debate site.

 

2. Logical Argument: Free speech is necessary for the site to function effectively and fairly.

For a debate site to function effectively, participants must be able to speak freely without fear of censorship, retaliation, or bias. If free speech is not allowed, the following issues would arise:

- Lack of diversity of thought: Without the freedom to express a wide range of opinions, the debate would be limited to a narrow set of viewpoints, reducing its educational and intellectual value.
- Bias and censorship: If the site censors certain views, it may be doing so based on subjective or arbitrary criteria, which undermines the fairness and objectivity of the debate.
- Inability to challenge ideas: A debate requires participants to challenge each other's arguments. Without free speech, individuals cannot challenge opposing views, which is a fundamental part of the debate process.
-  Reduced engagement: Participants may be less likely to engage if they fear their words will be suppressed, leading to a less dynamic and less productive discussion.

 

 Opposite Argument: "A debate site can function without free speech by using strict moderation rules."

Counterargument: Strict moderation rules may limit speech, but they cannot eliminate the possibility of censorship or bias. Additionally, moderation rules must be applied consistently and transparently, which is not always possible. The presence of moderation does not negate the need for free speech—it merely requires that the rules be fair and not suppress valid debate.

 

3. Probability Argument: The likelihood of a debate site functioning effectively without free speech is extremely low.

In a debate site, the goal is to maximize the quality and fairness of the discussion. This requires that participants be able to express their views openly, challenge others’ ideas, and engage in meaningful dialogue. The probability that a debate site can achieve this without free speech is very low, because:

- Censorship is error-prone: Human moderators are not infallible. They may inadvertently or intentionally suppress valid arguments, leading to a biased or incomplete discussion.
- Self-censorship: If participants fear their speech will be restricted, they may avoid expressing certain views, leading to a self-censored debate that is not representative of all opinions.
- Unfair advantage: Those with more resources or influence may be able to suppress dissenting voices more effectively, giving them an unfair advantage in the debate.

Therefore, the probability of a debate site functioning effectively without free speech is extremely low, making free speech a necessary condition for the site to fulfill its purpose.

 

4. Limited Options Argument: A debate site must either allow free speech or not function as a debate site.

1. It allows free speech, which is necessary for it to be a legitimate platform for debate.
2. It does not allow free speech, which would mean it is not a debate site but a monologue or a controlled discussion.

 

- A debate site is not a monologue or a one-sided discussion.
- The purpose of a debate site is to encourage open, fair, and diverse debate.
- Without free speech, the site cannot fulfill its purpose.

 

Free speech is crucial for a debate site because it is by definition essential to its purpose, necessary for its effective and fair operation, and the probability of its function without free speech is extremely low. 

 

Regarding majority should decide argument, and argument that we shouldnt bind ourselves to rule on free speech

 

I. Definition Argument: Free speech is essential by definition, and the opposite is false by definition.

 

Definition of Free speech: Free speech is the right of individuals to express their thoughts, opinions, and ideas without undue interference, as long as they do not harm others or violate laws.

Opposite Argument (Assumed): Free speech should not be a rule on a text debate site because the majority should vote on what speech is allowed.

Why this is false by definition:
- A text debate site is not a democratic voting platform for speech rules, but a space for structured intellectual exchange.
- If the majority were to decide what speech is allowed, it would reduce the diversity of ideas and increase the risk of censorship by the majority.
- Free speech is not a matter of opinion but a basic principle of fairness and open discourse, which cannot be determined or changed by majority vote.

 

II. Logical Argument: Majority voting on speech is not logically sound for a debate site.

 

A debate site is not a voting system but a platform for intellectual exchange.
If the majority decides what speech is allowed, it creates a system of censorship by the majority, which is not fair.
In a democratic society, free speech is protected by law, not by majority vote, such as in USA and Japan.
On a debate site, the goal is to allow all participants to express their views, not to limit them based on current majorities.

Therefore, majority voting on speech is not logically sound for a debate site, as it contradicts the purpose of the site and violates the principle of free speech.

 

III. Counterargument Exposure: The opposite argument depends on an unproven assumption.

Opposite Argument: Future people will have more knowledge, so they should not be bound by current rules about free speech.
The opposite argument assumes that future people can override the importance of free speech now, which is not logically valid.
- The importance of free speech is timeless, not dependent on future knowledge or understanding.
- Even if future people have more knowledge, the current participants still need to engage in debate now, and free speech must be respected in the present.

It is false to say that future knowledge can override the importance of free speech in the present.

 

IV. Probability Argument: The probability of free speech being overridden by future knowledge is very low.

Free speech is a principle that cannot be easily reversed once established.
A debate site must function properly and consistently for current users, not be dependent on future knowledge.

 

V. Limited Options Argument: There are only two options for speech rules—free speech or not free speech.**

Option 1: Free speech is allowed.
Option 2: Free speech is not allowed (i.e., speech is restricted by majority vote).

If Option 2 is chosen (speech restricted by majority vote):
- The site becomes subject to the whims of the majority, which can lead to censorship.
- The site becomes less democratic and less fair for participants.
- The site loses its core purpose as a platform for open debate.

If Option 1 is chosen (free speech is allowed):
- The site becomes a space for free and open discussion.
- The site becomes a more democratic and fair platform, because all views can be represented and judged equally, which is also a basic law in justice system, right to fair trial and representation.
- The site fulfills its purpose as a debate site.

 

Not free speech is not viable for the site’s purpose, as it leads to censorship, bias, and inconsistency.

 

Final Argument: Free speech must be a rule on a text debate site, not determined by majority vote or future knowledge.

By definition, free speech is essential for open discourse.  
By probability, future knowledge cannot override the importance of free speech now, and is extremely unlikely to do so in future.
By limited options, the site must choose between free speech and not free speech, and not free speech is not viable.

Opponents words seems made by AI

free speech is a right of everyone if its not violates ones rights

opponents motion : Debatecraft should add the rule where users are not allowed to violate free speech of other users

This rule would of course be subject to interpretation by community, owner and mods, but couldnt be removed except by owner.


AnonYmous_Icons motion : Debatecraft should add the rule where no-one is't allowed to violate free speech of anyone


opponents motion is't fair at all , on debate site no-one have right to violates mine or anyone else right or even its own rights too ...

Unjust law is not a law

at all

Round 2

2 of 3

Round 3

3 of 3

New comment

avatar
Kohai Administrator
•••
#13
--> @SatanLucy, @AnonYmous_Icon, @XSET.SHANE

>Reported Vote: XSET.SHANE // Mod action: Removed
>Voting Policy: https://www.debatecraft.com/debates/vote-rubric
>Voted for: pro
>Reason for Decision: other
>Reason for Mod Action:
Insufficient RFD + Multi accounting

avatar
Kohai Administrator
•••
#12

---XSET.SHANE's former vote---
Voted for: pro
I agree that debatecraft should add that

avatar
Kohai Administrator
•••
#11
--> @SatanLucy, @AnonYmous_Icon, @XSET..SHANE

>Reported Vote: XSET..SHANE // Mod action: Removed
>Voting Policy: https://www.debatecraft.com/debates/vote-rubric
>Voted for: pro
>Reason for Decision: other
>Reason for Mod Action:
Insufficient RFD + Multi accounting

avatar
Kohai Administrator
•••
#10

---XSET..SHANE's former vote---
Voted for: pro
I totally agree with the pro in this situation

avatar
Kohai Administrator
•••
#9
--> @SatanLucy

I’ll take care of this. Thanks for reporting

avatar
•••
#8
--> @Kohai, @Savant

Someone is spamming my debate with votes which are obviously also multiaccounting. I dont have part in this.

avatar
•••
#7

Spam voters

avatar
Kohai Administrator
•••
#6
--> @SatanLucy, @AnonYmous_Icon, @fauxlaw

<p>>Reported Vote: fauxlaw // Mod action: Removed</p>
<p>>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy</p>
<p>>Voted for: pro</p>
<p>>Reason for Decision: fails-to-analyze</p>
<p>>Reason for Mod Action:</p>
<p>Both debaters argued in round 1 and both forfeited round 2. Because both sides forfeited equal amounts of rounds and argued in equal amounts of rounds one is not able to award a point because the other side forfeited without analyzing arguments presented. </p>

avatar
Kohai Administrator
•••
#5

<p>---fauxlaw's former vote---</p>
<p>Voted for: pro</p>
<p>Pro wins debate by opponent forfeit of 2/3 of the debate rounds.</p>

avatar
fauxlaw Global Moderator
•••
#4


This one deserves to die without votes since both opponents forfeited 2 rounds of a 3-round debate - 66.6%; more than enough to declare an abandoned debate.
However, that said, I find the topic ill-defined, lackoiong definition where it belongs - in tree Description as part of the challenge so both opponents know what their BoP is. I disagree with any debate that assumes the BoP belongs with just one of the participants. "Freedom of speech" deserves better treatment of a challenge by explaining by definition what constitutes violation of free speech in an open forum such as DebateCraft. I think Sidewalker's post #1 set the problem squarely on point: how do we cancel another's post? To request a Mod do it for us is, I think, beyond the scope of a Mod's sense of fairness. Most people recognize when, in a debate, one participant trashes their opponent by nasty accusation, and a fair voter will vote accordingly.

avatar
•••
#3
--> @SatanLucy

I see, so people who disagree with what you say should be censored. Is that about it?

I think we should also censor people who want to censor people who want to censor people.

In the name of free speech of course.

avatar
•••
#2
--> @Sidewalker

Users can pressure mods to remove posts or ban users, obviously? And spam bots do destroy free speech too, but thats a different issue.

avatar
•••
#1

I don't understand this debate, how can a user violate another's free speech, I posy, you post, I can't make any changes to what you post, you can't change what I post, under these circumstances, how is it possible to violate someone elses free speech?

Criterion Pro Tie Con
Winner
Pro's arguments consisted of:

1. Unrestricted free speech expands knowledge.
2. National precedent (USA and Japan).
3. Maximum diversity of thought.
4. Maximum engagement

And others.

Con didn't really have a good sense of an argument.
Criterion Pro Tie Con
Winner
Joke/troll debate. Alot of wasted typing for something not possible to do outside of violating already placed digital laws.
The question and method of any lawful ways to hinder free speech falls on site admin/mods, etc. Otherwise it is assumed to be free speech until its not. After all, rules have been broken before.