(Pro) being a supporter of homosexuality, it IS NOT inconsistent that (pro) DOES NOT support incest at all.

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Mal
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Rated · 5 rounds
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Six months · 3 votes to close
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Please quote exactly. Do not rephrase or reinterpret. Answer all questions directly. Failure to comply with all this is an automatic forfeit. Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

Round 1

1 of 5
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Mal
Con #1

The people on the sidelines can tout all this stuff but can never refute what I say. My irrefutable points hits so hard, the ones crying brain damage suffer from brain damage from my irrefutable blows .


I digress.


I have spoken with many individuals that support homosexuality but will not support incest.


That is until I establish the inconsistencies and they concede their support and acceptance of close relative sexual relationships.


If you support same gender sexual relationships, the same basis can be given for incestuous folks.


For those that were obtuse and confused, let that sink in and help you out. If you don't understand a thing, it's best to stay out of it.


So I'm going to turn it over to the opposing side that will be showing you can't support both the same and it wouldn't inconsistent not to.

First I'd like to get a better grasp on what I'm actually debating. I'm contending the following:

"(Pro) being a supporter of homosexuality, it IS NOT inconsistent that (Pro) DOES NOT support incest at all."

There are three negatives, so two of them cancel out and we're left with:

I, being a supporter of homosexuality, it is inconsistent that I support incest at all

Fixing the grammar:

As I support homosexuality it is inconsistent for me to support incest.

And as I am negating the resolution the following is what I will be arguing:


As I support homosexuality it is consistent for me to support incest



C1 - Freedom of love

I might not agree with the life choices of others, but people loving who they want to love doesn't harm anybody. Some forms of love may seem gross to some, but it's a personal decision to be made by the ones who are actually involved.



Round 2

2 of 5
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Mal
Con #3

Ok so the opposing side so called actually agrees with my stance .


I rest my case.

Apologies, I got confused in the ocean of negatives. Consider last argument a forfeited round.


I will be arguing "you can't support both the same and it wouldn't inconsistent not to," meaning I must demonstrate it is consistent for me to support one but not the other.


Differences between incest and homosexuality

  1. Incest often arises from coercion and power imbalance (1)
  2. Incest leads to potentially life-ruining genetic diseases (1)
  3. Incest is shown to damage mental health (2)


These are all major problems that do not arise from homosexuality. Because of that fact it is reasonable for me to support homosexuality and not incest.


Sources:

1.https://cptsdfoundation.org/2022/04/18/incest-and-genetic-disorders

2.https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/persisting-negative-effects-incest?






Round 3

3 of 5
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Mal
Con #5

"Differences between incest and homosexuality


Incest often arises from coercion and power imbalance (1)

Incest leads to potentially life-ruining genetic diseases (1)

Incest is shown to damage mental health (2)



These are all major problems that do not arise from homosexuality. Because of that fact it is reasonable for me to support homosexuality and not incest."


The first point can be true in homosexual parties. The incestuous folks can be same sex.


So because it's not every case with incest, like it's not every case with homosexuality, the support can work the same for both. As you mentioned "often arises" indirectly says not all cases.


The second point is not necessarily. Just like homosexuality doesn't necessarily lead to sexual transmitted diseases, stigmatizations, demonizations and unfair discrimination.


Which could attribute to the next point about mental health.


So quite frankly and straightforwardly, we can't say all situations are the same, we can't say all have the same result.





I would like to emphasize I am not trying to prove incest is a terrible evil or even that it's wrong. All I must prove is that it can be reasonable to support homosexuality and not support incest, or as you would say; you can't support both the same and it wouldn't inconsistent not to.


Incest and coercion

"The first point can be true in homosexual parties. The incestuous folks can be same sex."

I don't quite see what your getting at. Sure, it can be true in any relationship, but it is much more problematic with incest. And if that scenario you mention happened, I would simply would not support the incest aspect.


Genetic disease

Sure, it's not absolute incest will create a crippling genetic disease but that doesn't make the problem go away.


Mental health

Homosexuality is not shown to cause mental health issues, and though incest doesn't always lead to depression and other issues later in life it's still a major problem. Eating Uranium isn't okay even if there's a chance it doesn't kill you.



In summary, the effects of incest are much worse than the effects of homosexuality, which makes it reasonable to support one but not the other. They are different things, and therefore they should be treated as such.


Round 4

4 of 5
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Mal
Con #7

"All I must prove is that it can be reasonable to support homosexuality and not support incest, or as you would say; you can't support both the same and it wouldn't inconsistent not to."


Yes the point is consistency . What's reasonable tends to be subjective.


"I don't quite see what your getting at. Sure, it can be true in any relationship, but it is much more problematic with incest. And if that scenario you mention happened, I would simply would not support the incest aspect."


So as long as there's no coercion, you support incest.


"Sure, it's not absolute incest will create a crippling genetic disease but that doesn't make the problem go away."


So you can support sterile /homosexual incest parties.


"Homosexuality is not shown to cause mental health issues, and though incest doesn't always lead to depression and other issues later in life it's still a major problem. Eating Uranium isn't okay even if there's a chance it doesn't kill you."


People don't come out the classic closet because of mental bombardment and for the sake of sanity and non embarrassment. If people can accept incest like homosexuality, all these folks can have peace and live and love comfortably.


So this means you support good healthy incestuous folks.


"In summary, the effects of incest are much worse than the effects of homosexuality, which makes it reasonable to support one but not the other. They are different things, and therefore they should be treated as such."


Consensual parties of incest can have the same support of consensual homosexual parties and those incestuous parties can be homosexual.


There really is no difference but just trumped up excuses to be against incest outright that conflicts with the basis of supporting homosexuality as the common denominator can be linked betwen the too.


Now because incest has not been socially accepted to the progressive level of the LGBT and perhaps the lack of exploring acceptance and resolving the reservations, the average person will dismiss incest as they used to with homosexuality.



My opponent's argument now relies on certain exceptions and theoreticals that make incest similar to homosexuality. The reality is that homosexuality and incest are fundamentally different things, and therefore must be judged differently.


Granted, there may be outliers that may make incest less harmful is certain areas, but this does not mean those who support homosexuality have a rational obligation to be okay with incest.


Con also argues that in a theoretical world the societal dislike of incest could just disappear, and by exstention disappear the damage to mental well being caused by incest. This argument is irrelevant because we simply do not live in such a world.


Con, who I think has the burden of proof(?), has thus far not been able to demonstrate why one must support incest if one supports homosexuality, two entirely different things. On the other hand, I have highlighted several major differences, among many, that make it more than reasonable to support only homosexuality.

Round 5

5 of 5
avatar
Mal
Con #9

"My opponent's argument now relies on certain exceptions and theoreticals that make incest similar to homosexuality. The reality is that homosexuality and incest are fundamentally different things, and therefore must be judged differently.




Granted, there may be outliers that may make incest less harmful is certain areas, but this does not mean those who support homosexuality have a rational obligation to be okay with incest."


This is a very simple equation which I don't know if the opposing side really doesn't comprehend or the struggle to play opposition's advocate to the most desperate degree .


If you support consensual same sex adult relationships, why drop your support if it's incestuous?


This is what the opposite side will not or has not addressed. As it would mean you would support both incest and homosexuality because both can co-exist.


Really case closed there.


"Con also argues that in a theoretical world the societal dislike of incest could just disappear, and by exstention disappear the damage to mental well being caused by incest. This argument is irrelevant because we simply do not live in such a world."


I don't believe I said anything about a theory. Anything such as mental well being that you want to say about what comes with incest also has occurred with the l.g.b.t community. The opposite side did not address the "coming out closet" phenomenon.


The whole story with that was because of societal acceptance and avoiding mental , life, health and wellness taxation. Which the acceptance has changed probably due to conversations for open-mindedness.


Now people that continue to reject this just prolong the progress to acceptance. All factual, non theoretical. No direction to go in but acceptance when you only have the two to go from and to, reject or accept.



"Con, who I think has the burden of proof(?), has thus far not been able to demonstrate why one must support incest if one supports homosexuality, two entirely different things. On the other hand, I have highlighted several major differences, among many, that make it more than reasonable to support only homosexuality."


I'll reiterate:


This is a very simple equation which I don't know if the opposing side really doesn't comprehend or the struggle to play opposition's advocate to the most desperate degree .


If you support consensual same sex adult relationships, why drop your support if it's incestuous?


This is what the opposite side will not or has not addressed. As it would mean you would support both incest and homosexuality because both can co-exist.


Thank you.

As a reminder, I’m trying to prove that it’s reasonable to support homosexuality but not to support incest. 


Again, these distinct topics aren’t to be viewed the same just because they both pertain to sexuality. They both have their own nuances. different places in culture and lead to different outcomes. 


Con has not provided any evidence as to why we should hold both incest and homosexuality in the same light, only highlighted vague similarities between the two. 


On the other hand, I’ve shown several key differences between them that make it more than reasonable to not support incest if you support homosexuality, such as coercion’s common place in incest, the genetic diseases it causes, and the mental health issues that arise from it.


I am confident I have proven that “ you can't support both the same and it wouldn't inconsistent not to.”


Vote Pro! 



Also could you please explain your thought process while writing the resolution?

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•••
#6
--> @melcharaz

Thanks for voting!

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Mal
•••
#5

We could not have debate if we didn't have you folks that lack understanding.

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•••
#4

"Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth."

Given how many times Mall has done this exact topic, I think Mall has been losing quite a bunch.

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•••
#3
--> @Ultracrepidarian

Just be careful, interaction with Mal can cause brain damage.

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•••
#2
--> @Sidewalker

I'm not quite sure. It's and adventure.

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•••
#1
--> @Mal, @Ultracrepidarian

What the hell does the debate title even mean, it's got a triple negative sentence and uses consistent and support in a confusing manner, is somebody trying to be clever with a misleading title or is it just a wierd way of saying something simple?

"(Pro) being a supporter of homosexuality, it IS NOT inconsistent that (pro) DOES NOT support incest at all."

OK, lets break it down, so Pro supports homosexuality, got it...then it IS NOT inconsistent" is a double negative, means "is consistent" that "(pro) DOES NOT support incest at all", not sure why "support" or "consistent were the word choice there."

Is this an accurate re-statement of the debate title: "Homosexuality does not entail incest" or "Being homosexual does not mean you engage in incest".

Is that what this debate it about?

Criterion Con Tie Pro
Winner
Ill rephrase title as "assuming pro is supporter of homosexuality, it is consistent that pro does not support incest at all"

Right off the bat we have to ask, what form of consistency? What form of support? Social? Ethical? Moral? Logical?

This is already a mess.

Judging on instigators R1
"I have spoken with many individuals that support homosexuality but will not support incest.


That is until I establish the inconsistencies and they concede their support and acceptance of close relative sexual relationships."

I believe we can say he means logically/positionally as he mentions they can concede support

So ill weigh this debate as instigator contends you cannot logically support incest as a homosexual, and contender affirms that you can logically support incest as a homosexual.

So lets get started.


R1 is a mess due to title wording.
R2 contender explans the source of incest and the problems of it, showing homosexuality lacks these.
R3 Contender's arguements are assumed and taken out of context, and misunderstood by instigator. contender again points out health issues of incestual relationships. Instigator suggests sterile relationship

R4 Contender rebutts against instigator saying he didnt prove why a homosexual MUST support incest. Instogator uses logical fallacy i forget name of but is basically "why not support both?"
R5 is summation and repeat.
I vote contender/pro as he actually gave reasons to not support incestual relationships, which, wether homosexual or not, are worthy of considering.