Is the theory of evolution consistent with the data?

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Verdict Ultracrepidarian wins · 4 points
Ultracrepidarian Pro
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SomeDebatePerson Con
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After 4 votes (0 ties) — 4 points ahead

The theory of evolution is a lie. It is against science and metaphysics. Try to prove me wrong.

Round 1

1 of 5

The easiest way to prove evolution is false is with simple metaphysics. No effect is greater than its cause. In evolution, each step is greater than the step before. Evolution cannot explain where the extra DNA or organs are coming from. This alone disproves evolution.


Evolution is based on so many assumptions. Evolutionists assume that because bones of species look similar they must be related, but when you check the DNA that codes for those bones, they are not similar.


Microevolution is not the same as macroevolution. Mutations do not prove evolution. No new information is ever added.


You can present your evidence and I will debunk it.

Salutations SomeDebatePerson, thanks for the debate!


Introduction


BoP

To win this debate, I must prove the theory of evolution is consistent with the data. In other words, I must prove it does not contradict current science.


To prove this I intend to go through every problem con has proposed and reconcile it with modern science.


Problem #1 - "No effect is greater than its cause"

"In evolution, each step is greater than the step before. Evolution cannot explain where the extra DNA or organs are coming from."

Evolution is just adaptation. It's not necessarily getting "greater," it's simply morphing to the environment for survival. These small changes over millennia result in completely unrecognizable organisms, this process is what we call evolution.


Problem #2 - " ...when you check the DNA that codes for those bones, they are not similar."

"Evolutionists assume that because bones of species look similar they must be related, but when you check the DNA that codes for those bones, they are not similar."

Could you site your source for this? I would assert the opposite. Scientists have found animals with similar bones have similar DNA.

https://www.genome.gov/about-genomics/fact-sheets/Comparative-Genomics-Fact-Sheet

Round 2

2 of 5

No effect is greater than its cause


This is what you said:


Evolution is just adaptation. It's not necessarily getting "greater," it's simply morphing to the environment for survival. These small changes over millennia result in completely unrecognizable organisms, this process is what we call evolution.


Microevolution is just adaption. But it is limited. One animal does not have potential for it to become another animals, no matter how many mutations you try to add. How does a living organism come from a non-living organism? How does a multicellular organism come from a single-called organism? How does a rational creature come from an irrational creature? None of them have the potential within them to become such.


Structural Homology


The evolutionary basis of homology is perhaps even more severely damaged by the discovery that apparently homologous structures are specified by quite different genes in different species… With the demise of any sort of straightforward explanation for homology one of the major pillars for evolution theory has become so weakened that its value as evidence for evolution is greatly diminished. (Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, 149 and 151)


More Evidence Against Macroevolution


Check out the table below:



The table shows the percent difference each organism has from a bacterium (plural bacteria). We don’t see a huge difference between any of them really. In fact, yeast is meant to be more similar to bacteria than mammals, birds, or fish. But the table shows it’s more different. And why do wheat and yeast have the biggest gap in percentage out of all of them if they are meant to be related?


Check out another table:



This shows the difference all the organisms on the table have from each other. Again, the percentages are not that drastic, inconsistent with the changes evolutionists would expect, and what is considered more similar to one thing doesn’t match up with macroevolution either.


Evolution is not consistent with the data.

Rebuttals


No effect is greater than its cause

My opponent offers a few questions, so I'll provide the answer.



The origin of life (abiogenesis)


“How does a living organism come from a non-living organism?”


That’s a different field called abiogenesis. Scientists don’t claim life came into existence completely formed. They propose natural, testable hypotheses where simple molecules gradually became self replicating systems under the laws of chemistry and physics

https://www.britannica.com/science/abiogenesis



The origin of multicellularity


“How does a multicellular organism come from a single-called organism?”


Multicellular organisms evolved from colonies of single-celled organisms. Over generations, some cells began specializing, like staying on the outside or sharing nutrients, which gave the colony survival advantages.

https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/how-did-multicellular-life-evolve/



The origin of intelligence


“How does a rational creature come from an irrational creature?”


This one is easy. Rationality arose over a long period of time as natural selection favored the more intelligent. 



Structural Homology

Denton's quote is from 1985, and modern genetics has long answered this concern. We now know that developmental pathways are flexible. Different genes can produce the same outcome, especially over millions of years of divergence. Homology is about shared structures from shared ancestry, not perfect genetic copies



DNA Similarity


Percentage difference isn’t everything

Evolution doesn’t claim that DNA similarity will match up in a perfect linear order across every organism. Genes can evolve differently, depending on their function, mutation rate, and selective pressure. Highly conserved genes will be similar across all life, while fast-changing ones won’t be.



Genes aren’t the only metric of relatedness 

Scientists look at shared errors, gene order, regulatory networks, and molecular phylogenies, not just a percent difference. Evolutionary relationships are drawn from many lines of evidence.



Summary

Thus far I believe I have provided answers to all of the objections you have put forth and shown that evolution is a logical viewpoint to hold with the information we have available to us. Though our understanding of evolution is not perfect, there is no significant evidence that is inconsistent with the theory. 




Other Sources:

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/teach-evolution/misconceptions-about-evolution/


https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolution-101/the-history-of-life-looking-at-the-patterns/understanding-phylogenies/


Round 3

3 of 5

Abiogenesis


Scientists are simply giving something impossible a fancy name so it sounds like it’s possible when it’s really not. Non-living matter does not have the potential to become living matter. First, they claim living things can evolve, then they claim non-living things can. Plus, Louis Pasteur debunked the belief that life can come from non-life with experiments.


AI says:


Louis Pasteur's experiments in the 19th century effectively debunked the theory of spontaneous generation, which is a form of abiogenesis, by demonstrating that life does not arise from non-living matter. His work established the principle of biogenesis, which states that life only comes from existing life. (emphasis added)


Cells


Again, a unicelled organism does not have the potential to become multicelled. Where do the extra cells come from? And where did the cells come from in the first place?


Rationality


You said:

This one is easy. Rationality arose over a long period of time as natural selection favored the more intelligent.


Actually, it’s not easy. This one is the hardest out of all of them. Rational creatures can grasp immaterial concepts. How would that arise from material? Rationality itself is immaterial, it cannot come from matter. Animals can’t simply just get smarter and smarter until they can think rationally. Rationality is a whole other concept.


Structural Homology


You said:

Denton's quote is from 1985, and modern genetics has long answered this concern. We now know that developmental pathways are flexible. Different genes can produce the same outcome, especially over millions of years of divergence. Homology is about shared structures from shared ancestry, not perfect genetic copies


First of all, Darwin was the one who originally came up with the idea that similar bones meant similar ancestors. He was the one who didn’t have modern genetics. He’s the one who was outdated. You ignore the point, if the bones are truly evidence of common ancestry, it should also be shown in the DNA. This point alone does not debunk evolution, but it shows that structural homology can no longer be used as evidence for evolution. At best, it is inconclusive.


DNA


Again, evolution may not claim that it should alway be found in DNA, but this shows evolution is not consistent with the data. Using DNA in no ways benefits the theory of evolution.


Scientists choose to cherry-pick and then blame others for “cherry-picking”. It’s ridiculous.


Summary


Thus far both of us have proved that evolution is not consistent with the data. All you have tried is to show it doesn’t contradict the data.


Now I will quote some scientists


Variability within a species is not indefinite. There is a limit beyond which variation is impossible. - Wilhelm Johannsen


The origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going. - Francis Crick


Now Some Quotes from Creationism


“The only thing all evolutionists agree on is that Evolution is a fact.


Distantly related species cannot produce offspring. More closely related species may produce hybrid offspring which may be sterile (a horse bred with a donkey results in a sterile mule).


Breeders have to be very careful in selecting males and females (intelligent breeders using artificial selection). Natural selection has no intelligence behind it.


Sexual reproduction has no advantage over asexual reproduction. Any genetic characteristic has a 50% chance of being eliminated through sexual reproduction.


Genetic mutations are almost always harmful, if not benign. The accumulation of genetic mutations is known as the “genetic load.” If the genetic load becomes too high, a species will not be able to reproduce and will become extinct.


In the survival of the fittest, the fittest are defined as those who survive. This is circular reasoning as can be shown: Who survives? The fittest. Who are the fittest? Those who survive.


Intelligence is independent of the size of the brain. Einstein had a smaller than average brain.


Language has devolved from more complex forms to more simple. Some of the languages of “primitive” tribes are very complex. Ancient Greek and Latin are more complex than modern languages.


Walking on two feet has disadvantages relative to walking on four feet (speed and agility).


Radioisotope dating methods are based on the assumption that the elements are decaying into simpler forms. This is the opposite of evolution.


The so-called vestigial organs have been found to have uses. Similar organs in different animals often develop differently in the embryo. The idea that embryos develop through their respective stages of evolution has been refuted.


Homo sapiens (wise man) is essentially superior to the other animals because he acts in an essentially superior way (art, language, religion, science, etc.)


Rocks are used to date fossils. Fossils are used to date rocks. This is circular reasoning. The geologic column does not physically exist anywhere in the world. The Grand Canyon has at least five large “gaps.”


There are no transitional fossils in the fossil record. Not only is there a missing link between apes and man, the links are missing between every species. There are no known links between invertebrates and vertebrates, or between fish and amphibians, or between amphibians and reptiles, or between reptiles and mammals.


Evolution of birds is a major problem (feathers, lungs). Archaeopteryx was a bird with teeth. There are modern birds with teeth.


Plant evolution has not even been seriously discussed among scientists.


Fossils from all phyla are in existence in the Cambrian rocks. This is fatal to the theory of Evolution.


The book has an extensive discussion on hominid/hominoid fossils. All are either apes, men, or frauds. The Piltdown fraud was not revealed until 40 years after its “discovery.” Pierre Teilhard de Chardin was involved.

It has been called the greatest hoax in the history of modern science.


Neanderthal men are true men. Their skulls are larger than modern men. Cro-Magnon men were larger than modern men and their skulls were also larger.


Some evolutionists have given up on gradualism and switched to saltation, or punctuated equilibrium, or hopeful monsters.


In Manchester, England, over a period of 50 years the peppered moth population changed from almost exclusively white to almost exclusively black. During this time industrial pollution changed the color of the tree trunks upon which the moths sat from light to dark. Predatory birds could better see the moths when their color contrasted with the color of the trees. The moths did not change at all; only the ratio of the black to white colored individuals. The story of the peppered moths does not demonstrate evolution in action.


Teleology, being a metaphysical topic, simply transcends the concepts of biology.


Gradual evolution is problematic; the mutant chicken cannot wait for the mutant rooster.


In scientism the denial of final causality stems from a materialistic bias, whereby nothing which transcends matter is tolerated. Matter fails to be an ultimate explanation of effects.


Abiogenesis (life from non-life) is not tenable. Life only comes from life – Law of Biogenesis.


Adaptation has been shown to be due primarily to geographic isolation.


The long epochs of time required for Darwinian gradualism appear to be an anomaly in that more species would tend to perish than be generated. Extinction rate is about 1000 per year. It [theoretically] takes tens of thousands of years for a new species to emerge. Of all species that have ever existed, 99.9% are extinct.


Salamanders and lilies have more DNA than man.”


- Evolution and Other Fairy Tales reviewed by Eric Bermingham on November 11, 2006.


I will admit that some of the examples quoted above aren’t exactly the best, but they do show how evolution is opposed to the traditional understanding of metaphysics.

It seems that most of Con's responses are just to not accept my rebuttals, which is reasonable if I haven't provided enough evidence or reasoning, so in this round I intend to elaborate on my points.


Problem #1 - No effect is greater than its cause


Explaining the origin of life

"Scientists are simply giving something impossible a fancy name so it sounds like it’s possible"


Seems like I need to explain this one better. The Miller-Urey experiment proved that amino acids, the pixel of all life, can be produced with inanimate chemicals. More about that and how amino acids become cells in this video or this article. So yes, life is not spontaneously generated. It is achieved through a series of steps staring with amino acid. Abiogenesis is not a conspiracy from those dastardly scientists. If you want an even deeper explanation there are the sources above or I can provide one if you insist. Admittedly, we there's much we're yet to know about this process, but a lack of certainty does not equal an inconstancy with science.


Explaining where cells come from

"Again, a unicelled organism does not have the potential to become multicelled. Where do the extra cells come from? And where did the cells come from in the first place?"


As previously stated, it is hypothesized the first multicellular organisms came from multiple different cells grouping together for survival. Extra cells come from cell division. This is how a sapling grows into a tree and and a fetus grows into an adult. The first cells came from protocells, which came from monomers. (amino acid)


Explaining the development of rationality

"Rational creatures can grasp immaterial concepts. How would that arise from material? Rationality itself is immaterial, it cannot come from matter. Animals can’t simply just get smarter and smarter until they can think rationally."

There is no clear line of what a rational creature is. Crows use tools, (1) elephants experience mourning. (2) I assert animals can get smarter and smarter until they think rationally. We can connect reasoning to brain structure, specifically the prefrontal cortex. When this part of the brain is damaged one's ability to think rationally is also damaged. (3) Over time we developed more and more advanced brains which gave us more advanced thinking.



Structured homology

While I still believe this can be used as evidence for evolution, I will drop this point as I am not attempting to prove evolution is true but only that it does not contradict with current science and information.



Problem #2 - DNA Consistency

"Again, evolution may not claim that it should alway be found in DNA, but this shows evolution is not consistent with the data. Using DNA in no ways benefits the theory of evolution."


Are you saying that this is inconclusive or that it's problematic for evolution? Also, "cherry picked" was a bad word, what I meant was oversimplified.


Sources:


  1. https://www.mpg.de/12401947/1024-verh-060830-new-caledonian-crows-compound-tools
  2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159106001018
  3. https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/what-happens-if-the-prefrontal-cortex-is-damaged

Round 4

4 of 5

Round 5

5 of 5

Origin of Life


First, the experiment only shows that certain parts of life can be created without life. They still haven’t managed to create an entire lifeform. Also, this experiment is done by intelligent life (humans), so you could really even use this experiment as proof for intelligent design and biogenesis if you wanted to. Louis Pasteur already debunked abiogenesis.


“Pasteur and others used the term biogenesis as the opposite of spontaneous generation, to mean that life was generated only from other life…Disliking the randomness and unpredictability implied by the term spontaneous generation, in 1870 Bastian coined the term biogenesis for the formation of life from nonliving matter. Soon thereafter, however, the English biologist Thomas Henry Huxley proposed the term abiogenesis for this same process, and adopted biogenesis for the process by which life arises from existing life.” - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation#Pasteur_and_Tyndall


“The origin of the genetic code is the most baffling aspect of the problem of the origins of life.” - Leslie Orgel


“There is no mathematical probability whatever for any known species having to have been the product of random occurrence.” - I. L. Cohen


Cells


Using the development of lifeforms troughout the their life as they grow is a terrible analogy. Again, where does a cell have the potential to become more cells?


Rationality


By rationality I don’t simply mean smart. I mean the ability to grasp immaterial concepts. Materials don’t have the ability to do this or the potential within themselves.


Closing Statements


Cambrian Explosion


I will now explain certain problems that exist in evolution. I will now explain how the Cambrian Explosion is problematic for evolution.


Let’s see what AI says:


The Cambrian Explosion was not entirely gradual; it involved a rapid diversification of animal life over a period of about 13 to 25 million years, starting around 543 million years ago. Recent research suggests that while there was a sudden appearance of many major animal groups, this event may have been preceded by a more gradual evolutionary process.


“If you throw out gradualism, you throw out the very thing that makes evolution more plausible than creation.” - Richard Dawkins


Many evolutionists admit that the easiest answer to Cambrian, and even the world in general, is design.


“To my mind the most important statement in science, the really fundamental statement, is that the world is ordered.” - Nobelist Polykarp Kusch


Plants


Second, I will bring up plants. Plants don’t move. Well, they can move, but their base stays the same. It’s kind of hard to imagine how survival of the fittest would work for plants. Does fittest mean the one who fits in the ground better or maybe who fits in with every else better?


“As yet, we have not been able to trace the phylogenetic history of a single group of modern plants from its beginning to the present.” - Botanist Chester Arnold


The Scientists


Even scientists can be used to show evolution is not consistent with the data.


“If a carbon-14 [dating result] supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a footnote. And if it is completely ‘out of date,’ we just drop it.” - William Stansfield


“The modern antipathy toward all forms of creationism is partly due to a widespread philosophical prejudice that arises from the a priori, nonscientific assumption that there can be no divine intervention into the workings of the universe and that the scientific method is the only way to truth.” - E. D. Lukas


“In fact, evolution became in a sense a scientific religion; almost all scientists have accepted it, and many are prepared to ‘bend’ their observations to fit in with it.” - H. S. Lipson


Finally


Finally, evolution is just a joke.


“I could show that war has done and is doing much … for the progress of civilization.” - Charles Darwin, the first Darwinist


Wanna know what the full title of his book commonly called The Origin of Species is? Well :


The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life


Yeah, the long name isn’t the only reason you don’t here it often. And if the title or quote isn’t bad enough:


“No other philosopher or scientist has had an impact on the thinking of modern man as Darwin.” - Ernst Mayr


Combine all those and you’ve got a huge problem.


“I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it’s been applied, will be one of the great jokes in the history books of the future.” - Malcom Muggeridge


It is a joke. Jokes often twist words.


Thou shalt send forth thy spirit, and they shall be created: and thou shalt renew the face of the earth. (God’s Spirit creates, not evolution)


May the glory of the Lord endure for ever: the Lord shall rejoice in his works. 


He looketh upon the earth, and maketh it tremble: he toucheth the mountains, and they smoke.


I will sing to the Lord as long as I live: I will sing praise to my God while I have my being.

Let my speech be acceptable to him: but I will take delight in the Lord. (My speech is this debate)


(Psalm 104: 30-34)


For my final round we'll be considering each of the problems Con has put forth.


Problem #1 - No effect is greater than its cause


Explaining the origin of life

I have shown how humans have managed to replicate the natural conditions in which the first building blocks of life were created. We know that if given sufficient time these amino acids can become cells, or in another word, life.



Explaining where cells come from

"Again, where does a cell have the potential to become more cells?"

I struggle to understand the source of Con's confusion. The answer is cell division, something we observe all around us.



Explaining the development of rationality

By rationality I don’t simply mean smart. I mean the ability to grasp immaterial concepts. Materials don’t have the ability to do this or the potential within themselves.

I don't understand why this is problematic for evolution. Why not? They do and we know they do because we (our brains) can grasp immaterial concepts. Our brains evolved through evolution.


Problem #2 - DNA Consistency

Dropped Point



The last round arguments

My opponent also brought up several completely new contentions in their final round. I'm also a little confused because it seems a lot of their quotes are pro evolution or irrelevant.


If you really wanted to discuss these points you should have brought them up in your first round, or I might be open to a separate debate for them.


Because I don't see any of this as contradicting to evidence toward evolution, and out of annoyance, I'm not going to respond to these points in this debate. I believe I have more than demonstrated that evolution is supported by the evidence, not contradicted by the evidence.


Vote Pro!




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#11

I'm evolutionist.

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Kohai Administrator
•••
#10
--> @Ultracrepidarian, @SomeDebatePerson, @Thoth

<p>>Reported Vote: Thoth // Mod action: Removed</p>
<p>>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy</p>
<p>>Voted for: pro</p>
<p>>Reason for Decision: fails-to-analyze</p>
<p>>Reason for Mod Action:</p>
<p></p>

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Kohai Administrator
•••
#9

<p>---Thoth's former vote---</p>
<p>Voted for: pro</p>
<p>Some of Con's points made me want to slam my keyboard, but I have to leave aside my frustration at Con's arguments and vote on the debate as it stands before me. Con fired round after round of grapeshot at the broad side of a barn but somehow still never hit the target. Pro cleanly refuted all of Con's points, or at least all the points he needed to refute, with clearly explained facts from credible sources. Notwithstanding that Con's position is untenable to the point of being unwinnable.</p>

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#8
--> @ChessPlayer

Not really. Like 50% made sense. You can guess which 50%

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#7

Really weird debate, tbh

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#6
--> @Ragnar

Thanks for voting!

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Ragnar Global Moderator
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#5
--> @Casey_Risk

Thank you for catching that error... I can't seem to correct it right now, but for when I revote I'm plugging it in here.

...

I'll admit I had trouble trying to understand where pro was going with his case. The end result is that the bible made all the creatures on the planet all at once, and humans and cavemen live side by side (an actual point he made), change is completely impossible... He had such supporting evidence as repeatedly telling us what AI told him, which includes that if you suppose evolution happened over only 6000 years instead of tens of millions, then it's no better an answer than creation, which he mistakes for it saying checkmate atheists!

Con on the other hand builds a case showing that the available data fits with the theory (hence it being a theory instead of a hypothesis; such as the FSM monster of whatever came from the sky and did it). He supports his case with numerous sources which can be easily viewed, and maintains such a clear trajectory that he simply extends one of his rounds instead of filling in anything when nothing was needed. He answered questions, such as explaining that not all organisms change at exactly the same pace as pro baselessly claims evolution requires. A good amount of his case rests on DNA similarity being data which supports the theory.

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#4
--> @Ragnar

It looks like you mixed up Pro and Con in your vote.

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#3
--> @Casey_Risk

Would you like to vote on the debate?

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#2

I posted 5 minutes too late, round 4 didn’t make it

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#1

That Round 3 Gish Gallop is particularly bad, even by creationist standards. Nearly every point is just flat-out wrong.

fauxlaw
fauxlaw Global Moderator
#4
Criterion Con Tie Pro
Winner
Con's arguments were scatter-brained throughout,, with a complete missive in R4 [not sufficient forfeit to lose the debate on that account], but may have been the most rational of his rounds. Can't see through several rounds how one-ceiled organisms become multi-celled, and more complex, as Pro rebutted? Has Con never studied gestation of virtually every eventual mutli-celled animal in existence? Guess not. or trying to pass off metaphysics as a science? Nope. That study is in the philosophy department down the hall. By contrast, Pro was able to clarify every one of Con's arguments as failing to meet the resolve. No, evolution is not perfect; it is subject tor mutation, but it is consistent with the data as the data has improved ever since how life has been altered in complexity ever since rational man has studied life alteration [evolution] ever since man could be rational - long before Darwin as Pro has argued, presenting a very structured concluding R5 conclusion.
Criterion Con Tie Pro
Winner
I'm voting Pro because he had a stronger argument, mostly in the form of refuting a wide and unorganized range of statements.

Con seemed to lack a well-organized logical argument, and instead appeared to rely on almost random comments, most of which were either dogmatic assertions of incorrect facts, or non sequiturs regarding the subject matter. Con used quotes that were loosely related, many from questionable sources, and in the final round some were conflicting with his intent and point of view. Con had a rather primary "metaphysical' statement which doesn't seem to even apply, this like most of the arguments put forth, were dogmatically asserted rather than put forth as a supported argument or with an explanation as to why it is relevant to the argument.

Pro was all over the place also, but I think it's because he was responding to such a wide and disorganized "argument" from con. He did an only adequate job of refuting most of con's relevant points and appeared to be better informed about the subject matter. There weren't a lot of strong well developed and supported arguments, but he caught everything con threw at him and in the process won the debate by being more convincing and more informed about the subject matter.
Criterion Con Tie Pro
Winner
This debate would have benefitted from a little more clear direction both in the resolution and argumentation. While I can appreciate some of the points CON made about the inadequacies of the theory of evolution, a debate is not really the place to rapid-fire a bunch of random assertions with no justification.

That being said, there was some good back and forth on a few main points, so that is where I placed most of the weight of my vote.

--Abiogenesis vs. Spontaneous Generation--
While PRO did argue there is technically a difference between these two concepts, there was no justification for how life came from non-life. CON pointed out that PRO's evidence only shows we have replicated parts of life, but not life itself. This argument went in favor of CON.

--Origin of Multicellular Organisms--
PRO offered a hypothesis for how multicellular organisms arose, and CON never really tried to rebut this other than to simply disagree without justification. This argument went in favor of PRO.

--Homology--
After some back and forth CON said, "This point alone does not debunk evolution, but it shows that structural homology can no longer be used as evidence for evolution. At best, it is inconclusive." PRO drops the point since CON did not show how evolution contradicts current scientific information. CON needed more of an argument to show how it supported his position, not just that it should be thrown out. Based on the resolution, this argument went in favor of PRO.

--Rationality--
CON asserted the ability to grasp immaterial concepts cannot arise from that which is material. Whether that is true or not, there was never any justification for this. PRO at least offered a line of logical argumentation trying to link intelligence and rationality. Again, CON never really tried to rebut this other than to simply disagree without justification. Based on the resolution, this argument went in favor of PRO.

--Miscellaneous--
Very little weight was placed on the following points, but they did play a small role in influencing my vote.

Evidence and Sources
CON did offer a few pieces of evidence and data, but PRO did far more in attempting support their claims.
--As a note to PRO though, your Round 2 argument "Explaining the origin of life" fell short since you didn't really make an argument. Making a simple assertion (amino acids can be produced with inanimate chemicals) and then posting a link for me to investigate is not an argument. A citation is meant to support the argument that YOU articulate.

Forfeiture
I get that life happens and missing one round is not usually enough to lose the whole debate. However, it does still reflect poorly on the debater and presents a lost opportunity for arguing your side.

Presenting New Arguments in the Closing Round
While there was no explicit rule against doing this, and as much as I would have liked to see CON press some of those points, I am perfectly fine with PRO dismissing the new arguments and sticking to the main points covered in the rest of the debate.

CONCLUSION:
I believe PRO won this debate. CON was too scattered and lacked solid argumentation for much of the debate. The theory of evolution covers a lot of different areas and CON only had one favorable point (Abiogenesis). But even this was not pushed hard enough to win. PRO did a much better job of presenting an organized argument with supporting evidence.
Ragnar
Ragnar Global Moderator
#1
Criterion Con Tie Pro
Winner
I'll admit I had trouble trying to understand where pro was going with his case. The end result is that the bible made all the creatures on the planet all at once, and humans and cavemen live side by side (an actual point he made), change is completely impossible... He had such supporting evidence as repeatedly telling us what AI told him, which includes that if you suppose evolution happened over only 6000 years instead of tens of millions, then it's no better an answer than creation, which he mistakes for it saying checkmate atheists!

Con on the other hand builds a case showing that the available data fits with the theory (hence it being a theory instead of a hypothesis; such as the FSM monster of whatever came from the sky and did it). He supports his case with numerous sources which can be easily viewed, and maintains such a clear trajectory that he simply extends one of his rounds instead of filling in anything when nothing was needed. He answered questions, such as explaining that not all organisms change at exactly the same pace as pro baselessly claims evolution requires. A good amount of his case rests on DNA similarity being data which supports the theory.