Does Israel Have The Right To Exist?

Voting israel palestine

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This debate involves fundamental questions about state legitimacy, historical justice, self-determination rights, and the relationship between state conduct and the continued right to exist under international law.

Round 1

1 of 3
avatar Pro #1

It's simple:


The United Nations officially recognized Israel as a sovereign state and admitted it as a member on May 11, 1949. Israel's membership in the UN came after the Security Council recommended its admission on March 4, 1949, following the resolution that Israel was a peace-loving state willing and able to carry out the obligations of the UN Charter. The General Assembly passed Resolution 273 admitting Israel with a vote of 37 in favor, 12 against, and 9 abstentions. This admission marked Israel as the 59th member of the United Nations.


Whether or not a country is recognized by the UN has nothing to do with its “right to exist.”


“It [the right to exist] is not a right recognized in international law.” - Wikipedia


Trying to use international recognition to say a state has the “right to exist” cannot help you since international law has does not recognize this right.


Also, over 75% of the world’s countries recognize Palestine, so international recognition has nothing to do with the “right to exist.”


The idea of the “right to exist” has become much more popular with the Israel-Palestine conflict, but it is true that it did exist before. The argument is based on circular reasoning, really. The state was founded with the belief of this right and uses its own existence and founding to back it up.


Citations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_exist

Round 2

2 of 3
avatar Pro #3

Your claims rest on several questionable assumptions: that international law provides the sole framework for evaluating state legitimacy, that recognition and "right to exist" are the same concept, that statistical evidence of Palestinian recognition undermines the relevance of recognition generally, and that apparent circularity automatically invalidates legitimacy claims. These assumptions reveal a selective application of skeptical reasoning that could theoretically challenge the legitimacy of any state if applied consistently.


So are you basically saying there is no such thing as a right to exist for any state? If so, here is my response with citations:


The claim that there is no inherent right to exist for sovereign states creates significant philosophical and practical problems by undermining the foundational principle of sovereign equality that underpins the entire international legal system. The principle of sovereign equality, enshrined in Article 2.1 of the UN Charter and recognized as a structural principle of international law, establishes that states possess inherent rights including territorial integrity and political independence. This principle "encompasses the right of the State to its territorial integrity as well as its political independence" and declares that "the territorial integrity and political independence of the State are inviolable". Denying inherent state rights contradicts centuries of legal development dating back to the Peace of Westphalia of 1648, which "recognized that states had certain inherent rights, namely, exclusive jurisdiction within their own territory, political independence, and full equality under international law".ub+3

From a functional perspective, rejecting inherent state rights creates a logical paradox that undermines the entire framework of international cooperation and governance. As scholars note, "all states are equal under international law in spite of asymmetries of inequality in areas like military power, geographical and population size", and this juridical equality provides the basis for treaty-making, diplomatic relations, and international law itself. Without inherent rights, states lose the theoretical foundation for their authority to enter into binding agreements, maintain territorial boundaries, or exercise domestic jurisdiction. This creates what political theorists have identified as a fundamental problem: if states have no inherent rights, then the entire system of international law, which depends on state consent and recognition of sovereign authority, loses its legitimacy and enforcement mechanisms.cambridge+5

The denial of inherent state rights also produces dangerous practical consequences by eliminating the normative barriers against aggression and intervention while providing no viable alternative for organizing complex international relations. The sovereign equality principle serves as "a guarantee of domestic autonomy and non-intervention that implies a functional equivalence between states", and without this protection, weaker states become vulnerable to domination by more powerful actors. This creates a legitimacy crisis where states cannot effectively protect their populations or maintain order, as the philosophical foundation for their authority disappears. Moreover, as legal scholars observe, rejecting inherent state rights contradicts the principle of self-determination and popular sovereignty, since peoples' right to choose their own government and political arrangements requires recognition that the resulting state has legitimate authority to exist and govern.jfki.fu-berlin+6

  1. https://www.ub.edu/sededh/en/the-state-territorial-sovereignty-and-access-to-independence-according-to-international-law/principle-of-sovereign-equality-the-right-to-territorial-integrity/
  2. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3171769
  3. https://2001-2009.state.gov/s/p/rem/2003/16648.htm
  4. https://whatchinasays.org/concept/5-principle-of-sovereign-equality/
  5. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-journal-of-international-law/article/defining-the-rights-of-sovereignty/6D1994588436B763C65C9A63D2E61AD6
  6. https://www.jfki.fu-berlin.de/faculty/politicalscience/team/professors/viola/articles-pdfs/Sovereign.pdf
  7. https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/context/ilj/article/1770/viewcontent/24FordhamIntlLJ1477_282000_2001_29.pdf
  8. https://legalresponse.org/legaladvice/principle-of-formal-equality/
  9. https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/fac_artchop/884/
  10. https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1jufqj/i_believe_states_rights_are_an_issue_of/
  11. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9462065/
  12. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimation_crisis
  13. https://fedsoc.org/fedsoc-review/the-false-doctrine-of-inherent-sovereign-authority
  14. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/statesrights.html
  15. https://statecourtreport.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/natural-rights-state-courts


First of all, your international law complaint makes no sense. You were the one who exclusively used the facts about the UN and the how the majority voted for it. Is the UN an absolute democracy? Are rights merely based on popularity? Stop blaming me and saying my argument rests on international law when you used this for your opening.


Science divorced philosophy. God divorced Israel. (Jeremiah 3:8)


Your source don’t really bring up anything about the “right to exist.” All they do is mention rights of states. State rights? Remember that from the Confederate States of America?


What does the fact that states are equal have to do with this “right to exist”? If all states are special, then no state is special.


“[T]he right to exist is an attribute of states rather than of peoples.” - Wikipedia


Nations fall and rise. The “right to exist” is not talking about the people and citizens who live inside a state but about the right to certain geographical borders and forms of goverment.


Question I have for you: What is your definition of “right to exist” so this debate can work better?


Your strategy is to make the definition of “right to exist” flexible and undefined so you can push the debate elsewhere when you don’t have a good answer. You also try to make other rights fit in or make them just another way to say “right to exist.”


Also, stop using so many sources so you can make it look like you’ve done a better job. And why did you use Reddit as a source?

Round 3

3 of 3
avatar Pro #5

The Right to Exist for a Sovereign State

The "right to exist" for a sovereign state is not a formally recognized principle in international law but rather a philosophical and political concept that asserts a state's claim to legitimacy and continued existence as a sovereign entity. According to Ernest Renan's influential 19th-century definition, a state has the right to exist when "individuals are willing to sacrifice their own interests for the community it represents"—essentially when a population demonstrates sustained commitment to their political community through collective action and sacrifice.wikipedia+1


The concept encompasses two distinct aspects: the putative right of an entity to become a state, and the right of an existing state not to be extinguished or territorially diminished. Unlike the principle of self-determination, which applies to peoples, the right to exist is specifically attributed to states as political entities rather than ethnic or cultural groups. This distinction is crucial because it addresses the institutional legitimacy of governmental structures rather than the natural rights of populations.papers.ssrn+1


In practice, the "right to exist" functions as a political claim rather than a legal entitlement. States exist as "political realities" based on their ability to exercise effective control over territory and population, gain recognition from other states, and fulfill the functions of governance. While sovereignty provides the legal framework through which states operate—including territorial integrity, political independence, and non-interference principles—the underlying "right to exist" remains a contested philosophical concept that states invoke to justify their legitimacy and resist challenges to their continued existence.aljazeera+5


That said, Israel has the right to exist.


As for God divorcing Israel, overall, rather than “divorce,” the biblical narrative depicts Israel’s unfaithfulness as disciplinary breach within an unbreakable covenant. Across centuries and through prophetic voices, God continually calls Israel back—punishing, pardoning, and ultimately promising redemption rather than permanent repudiation.


  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_exist
  2. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/11/5/no-state-has-an-inherent-right-to-exist-not-even-israel
  3. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2796206
  4. https://polilegal.com/post/sovereignty-explained-the-core-concept-in-politics-and-law-easy-wisdom/
  5. https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/17xha78/what_does_right_to_exist_mean/
  6. https://mises.org/power-market/no-state-has-right-exist-includes-state-israel
  7. https://www.mpm.edu/content/wirp/ICW-07
  8. https://pesd.princeton.edu/node/516
  9. https://legal-resources.uslegalforms.com/s/sovereign-state
  10. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/legitimacy/
  11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_legitimacy
  12. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state


Did you claim every country has a right to exist? Nations fall and rise. You even mentioned territorial borders and government.


You have provided no reason for us to believe that Israel has the “right to exist.” One could argue that countries don’t actually exist and are just a mental construct.


You have failed to prove the definition of right to exist, that the people of Israel “are willing to sacrifice their own interests for the community it represents.”


All you have done is show that nations have certain rights and that the “right to exist” is a philosophical and not a legal issue. This is very ironic since you were the one who opened with the legality of Israel and then you say that I can’t use legality to defeat you. You still provide no philosophical reasons. You have the burden of proof, and you have provided none.


“And the Lord God gave to Israel all the land that he had sworn to give to their fathers: and they possessed it and dwelt in it. And he gave them peace from all nations round about: and none of their enemies durst stand against them, but were brought under their dominion. Not so much as one word, which he had promised to perform unto them, was made void, but all came to pass. (Joshua 21:43-45)


“For the Lord hath mingled for you the spirit of a deep sleep, he will shut up your eyes, he will cover your prophets and princes, that see visions.” (Isaiah 29:10)


“And seeing a certain fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only, and he saith to it: May no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And immediately the fig tree withered away” (Matthew 21:19)


And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the wild olive tree, which is natural to thee; and, contrary to nature, were grafted into the good olive tree; how much more shall they that are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in. (Romans 11:23-25)

New comment

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•••
#26
--> @ChatKnight

Yeah, well it’s deleted now. It was just a grudge against me.

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#25
--> @SomeDebatePerson

Ultracrepidarian voted for my AI chatbot. LOL

My chatbot out-debated you.

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#24

No it doesn’t

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#23

This proves that my chatbot's arguments were more convincing than those of a human. Bravo!

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Kohai Administrator
•••
#22
--> @Ultracrepidarian, @ChatKnight, @SomeDebatePerson

<p>>Reported Vote: Ultracrepidarian // Mod action: Removed</p>
<p>>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy</p>
<p>>Voted for: pro</p>
<p>>Reason for Decision: other</p>
<p>>Reason for Mod Action:</p>
<p>Voter requested this vote be removed. </p>

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Kohai Administrator
•••
#21

<p>---Ultracrepidarian's former vote---</p>
<p>Voted for: pro</p>
<p>Simply, Con does not sufficiently undermine Pro's assertion that all states have the right to exist, and that Israel is a state. Therefore, this point goes to Pro. This was a debate about definitions, and Pro managed to firmly establish what "the right to exist" is using various sources and reasoning.

</p>

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#20
--> @Kohai

Yes, thank you.

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Kohai Administrator
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#19
--> @Ultracrepidarian

Do you want me to remove your vote?

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#18

Didn't realize this was AI. Obviously would have voted otherwise had I known.

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#17

Sure. I'm terrified. So is my AI chatbot.

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Kohai Administrator
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#16
--> @ChatKnight

Total nonsense > AI arguments. Stop copying and pasting from AI. This could eventually result in moderation action and include site bans.

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#15
--> @Kohai

My arguments made sense, AI or not. CON's arguments were total nonsense.

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#14

Wow

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#13
--> @SomeDebatePerson

I can't respond to you. I got banned for using AI in a debate. LOL

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#12

Maybe you’re hallucinating us hallucinating. Only someone on drugs would claim someone else is on drugs.

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#11

You're both hallucinating. Stop taking drugs.

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#10
--> @ChatKnight

Feel free to report it

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#9

Yeah, I’m not sure where exactly it is but it is a real thing

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#8

Show where DebateCraft banned AI use. "Violation"??? LOL

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#7

Just admitted bro

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#6
--> @Fruit_Inspector

Using AI doesn’t replace my thinking—it supercharges it. It ensures my debate contributions are evidence-rich, well-organized, and uniquely mine. Me using AI isn’t cheating—it’s like wearing glasses to see better. Unless you’re one of those people who brag about their ‘perfect vision’ while tripping over their own shoelaces?

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#5
--> @ChatKnight

There is a world of difference between doing a Google search and having AI write a custom argument for you. You would be wise to start doing your own thinking.

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#4

If Google searches and citations can be used in a debate, AI can be used as well.

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#3
--> @SomeDebatePerson

I don't feel like voting for someone I strongly believe used AI for argument generation. That being said, I had already typed up most of the justification for my non-vote before recognizing the AI. I will post this in case it is helpful for you.

Basis for Judgment:
The resolution is a question, which would typically imply the burden of proof is shared. My judgment is based on who answered the question more convincingly.

Summary:
PRO opened with nothing more than a summary of Israel's acceptance into the UN. This was not a strong opening, but neither was CON's as they essentially based their entire criticism on a Wikipedia quote and an ineffective accusation of circular reasoning.

Round 2 got a little more in depth, with PRO offering more of case as to why a state has the (undefined) right to exist. Territorial integrity and political independence as rights of states seems to imply, in a general sense, that a state has the right to exist. CON needs to counter by narrowing the meaning of the "right to exist". Instead, CON threw this out:
“[T]he right to exist is an attribute of states rather than of peoples.”
So the right to exist belongs to a state? Is PRO not arguing from the position that Israel is a state? This almost seems like an inadvertent concession.

Justification:
CON's case was hurt by two things:
1. Waiting until Round 2 to question the definition of "right to exist," as this allowed PRO the chance to frame the whole debate, leaving CON a single closing argument to respond.
2. Waiting until Round 3 to bring up burden of proof when PRO had no chance to respond. Since CON's answer to the resolution question is, "No, Israel does not have the right to exist," I expected to see an argument for why that position is true. Instead, all we heard was CON criticizing PRO's position.

While the instigator should have clarified those things in the resolution/description, Round 1 would have been a better place for CON to address them.

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#2

All those sources seem pretty sus

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#1

Does anyone else suspect PRO used AI to generate arguments?

Kohai
Kohai Administrator
#2
Criterion Pro Tie Con
Winner
Most of Pro’s arguments were AI generated. Con wins by default
Criterion Pro Tie Con
Winner
PRO admitted to using AI to generate arguments. Violation - CON wins.