Is Sola Scriptura valid? (Protestant Vs Catholic)

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Mal
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I just want to clarify here that sola scriptura claims the only infallible authority for Christians is the Bible. We Protestants accept that all institutions that God ordained have some level of authority. For example, parents, a specific institutional church, and governments. However, none of these are infallible, and all can err. This is the claim of sola scriptura. The church’s only infallible authority is the breathed words of God.

Round 1

1 of 4
avatar Pro #1

This is my first debate challenge that has been accepted, and I do not really know how it works, so hopefully this opening is decent.

Sola Scriptura does not claim that scripture is our only authority. It claims that scripture is our only infallible authority, as nothing is on par with the breath of God. One could argue the Catholic Church is the breath of God in a manner, but that is a burden of proof that I doubt my opponent will be able to fulfill.

I will form will form my argument in a syllogism, so no one gets lost in irrelevant points.

P1. Sola Scriptura claims that the Bible is the only infallible authority for modern Christians

P2. The Bible is infallible

P3. No institution, including a specific church, is infallible

C. Therefore, Sola Scriptura is valid.


P1. This is simply what the term has historically meant. It is often misconstrued as meaning the only authority, but none of the early Protestants considered it to mean this. My opponent cannot raise a legitimate objection to this premise.

P2. My opponent cannot raise a legitimate objection to this premise, because the argument against Sola Scriptura relies on the reliability of both the Roman Catholic Church and the BIble.

P3. This is really where the battle lies, and it will put my opponent on the offensive. I will try to anticipate some objections, but the burden of proof lies on them to show that a specific institution is infallible, so most of the furthering of the conversation should come from my response to their arguments for the truthfulness of the Catholic Church’s infallibility.

Regarding Peter being a rock. I can grant this premise that my opponent will likely attempt to argue, despite my own lack of surety on if they are correct. Paul says God’s household is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ as the cornerstone. To say that Peter was part of that foundation in which Christ is the cornerstone is largely unobjectionable (Ephesians 2:19-20).

Regarding the Keys to the Church: I think this is a really poor argument. Peter receiving the Keys to the Church does not imply the papacy, because the implication of him receiving the keys (as Christ says immediately after) is that he will be able to bind and loose in heaven and earth. Wow! That’s a really strong argument for the Catholics. Except is doesn’t end there. If it did, maybe I’d be catholic too. All of the apostles are rewarded the ability to bind and loose, so this is in no sense a papal like office. Also, in Mathew 18:18 where Christ says this, the implication from his prior parable seems to be that the authority is a real authority to prohibit one from joining in fellowship, but that is no implication of infallibility. Authority does not equal infallibility. Even God grants Satan some manner of Authority, but my no means does he have infallibility, which my opponent must support.

Lastly, the Catholic Church has many accretions. They adhere to ideas that were clearly developed over time (Im not sure if examples are required. I would be surprised if my opponent denied this) but we are specifically told not to adhere to man made traditions in place of God’s law. We do not see God developing his law bit by bit. He speaks infallibly. He does not encourage people to be a little bit correct until eventually they have accrued enough to get to the correct doctrine.


C. The syllogism follows. If the premises are granted, so is the conclusion. No objection can be made to the form of my argument.


That’s all I have for this first one. Thanks to my opponent for accepting the challenge. I will also point out that I am fully open to the idea of Catholicism, and have sought to become catholic because of the seriousness its members have toward the faith, but I just find the arguments exceedingly poor, and see it as essentially another rendition of what Christ critiqued the Pharisees for. They had true authority as they sat in the seat of Moses, but they taught falsely with no infallibility. The Jews certainly should have adhered to sola sciptura. Christ warned them to do that very thing: ““The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

So, they have real authority to teach what Moses taught, so listen when they say what Moses said, but when it’s just something they say and do, you are not meant to follow. That’s sola scriptura. I guess I wasn’t done yet.

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Mal
Con #2

Greetings. We're going to start with the description.


"I just want to clarify here that sola scriptura claims the only infallible authority for Christians is the Bible."


I've taken the position that the bible, the holy scriptures are not the only infallible authority for "christians" or more specifically, children of God according to God of the scriptures.


"The church’s only infallible authority is the breathed words of God."


The church of Christ or the Church of God doesn't just stop at the words of God but God himself according to the scripture.


According to Matthew 28:18

"Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority (all power of absolute rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me."


So even the words of scripture, the words of God points out where all authority is.


It is Jesus and being that we're talking about the church, let's get another scripture.


In the book of Colossians 1:18


"Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, supreme over all who rise from the dead. So he is first in everything."


So why is there an important distinction here that many perhaps so called christians don't think about?


Many people believe that of their own selves, have to guide themselves, lead themselves and learn and obey the words of scripture themselves as if they have the will to do that. So they view the words as the authority itself alone as an acting working force or spirit .


But the scriptures teach that the spirit is given to those that obey but this is without spoken word.


So besides spoken word, we have the spirit himself who is infallible as a guide without speaking, reading or referring to words.


As a matter of fact according to scripture, it's the infallible spirit that gives you the words to say.


But first let's highlight the spirit.


We go to the book of Romans , chapter 8


"9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ"


The spirit, the infallible spirit with all power all AUTHORITY lives in those that belong to the spirit. Very important to note.

Again, not even addressing any words from the spirit being spoken.


You're being led , you follow the spirit. You don't follow yourself. You don't decide yourself and desire to start reading scriptures to lean on as the sole authority.


The authority is already in you so that you lean not unto your own understanding but as the book says acknowledge him. That authority is within that will lead you to study, rightly dividing the word, getting understanding from the spirit.


This is where we learn another important note according to scripture. It takes the spirit for understanding and a revelation of mystery given.


But that is with authority of the spirit. It isn't just only have the book or words.


We read on in verse 14 about the spirit.


"14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God."


Then that spirit gives you the words to speak.


In Matthew 10


"20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."


The Holy Spirit, the Father , God the Father will lead you want to say .


Let's get a second witness.


In verse nineteen.


"But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak."


Lines up with Luke 12 where it says "do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say"


Then in verse 12 see " for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.”


The holy Spirit God the Father dwelling in your body you sacrifice for as a temple denying yourself and worldly lust acknowledging him directing your path .


Let's get some rebuttals started early in this round.


"One could argue the Catholic Church is the breath of God in a manner, but that is a burden of proof that I doubt my opponent will be able to fulfill"


Can't even find any church that the bible says is the breath or word of God.

I wouldn't have to be burdened with upholding that falsehood.


"I am fully open to the idea of Catholicism, and have sought to become catholic because of the seriousness its members have toward the faith"


This is a question I'm curious about the answer because I don't see many on the mainstream looking to be in the holy faith that the scripture teaches.


Why have you not sought to become holy as God says to be according to the scripture?


You say the Bible is sola scriptura but there is no scripture that teaches to be Catholic.








Round 2

2 of 4
avatar
Mal
Con #4

I rest my case.

Round 3

3 of 4
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Mal
Con #6

I rest my case.

Round 4

4 of 4
avatar
Mal
Con #8

Case closed.

New comment

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•••
#5

Funny thing is mal was so ready to accept a debate that wasn't even his

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•••
#4

over

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#3

Declension: “Spīritus” is a fourth declension noun in Latin. Below are the singular and plural forms:

Singular:
Nominative: spīritus (spirit)
Genitive: spīritūs (of the spirit)
Dative: spīrituī (to/for the spirit)
Accusative: spīritum (the spirit)
Ablative: spīritū (by/with/from the spirit)

Plural:
Nominative: spīritūs (spirits)
Genitive: spīrituum (of the spirits)
Dative: spīritibus (to/for the spirits)
Accusative: spīritūs (the spirits)
Ablative: spīritibus (by/with/from the spirits)



I add this for grammar sake if what i said was incorrect.

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•••
#2

Only problem i have is "C. Therefore, Sola Scriptura is valid."

Validity means it has legal force, grounded, effective or binding.
Can be based on truth or reason.

So depending on what you are trying to say, the debate is either a truism, or it can be debated on How infallibility makes sola scriptura effective, binding or of Legal force.

In which case you are arguing a concept and an application, not if its true.

Catholicism under the ecclesia believes it is valid for the pope to make a public declaration which is as valid or of legal/binding force as scripture (i wont get into details)

Mal talks about interpretation of the Word by the Spirit, so it is possible he supports sola spīritus. Which is not officially recognized by either protestant or catholic church.

Specifically Sola Spīritus Sanctus or Holy Spirit alone (in context of interpretation of the Word of God)

This debate could turn out intresting.

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•••
#1

Unfortunately I have been signed out of my account when my username was changed and I can not get back into the account.