Does God of the scriptures give freewill to choose Him or does HE work His will through those that He chooses to serve him?

Does God of the scriptures give freewill to choose Him or does HE work His will through those that He chooses to serve him?

Thank you to the opposite side once again. Apparently we are the only two on this platform that can put up some type of a defense.

Got people in the comments but won't earnestly contend for the faith.

That is having a defense for what they believe in. If they really believe in it.

They don't believe Jesus is God according to scripture but can't defend it. They don't..... believe the God is the Father.

They don't believe the Father is holy but can't defend any of these claims.

To the audience that is reading, you don't have to wait for me to challenge.

Message me. We can arrange a debate on this site or go live on YouTube or discord.

I have past discussions and debates posted in recorded video on the YouTube channel J. Talks to the people.

Let me know if you have trouble finding it.

There's a funny video where the atheist makes a fool out of himself in less than half hour.

One atheist I believe claimed according to the bible that God is evil. Another atheist told me that was wrong of the atheist to take on.

All that's recorded on the channel.

So we can have these debates live.

These biblical debates, I bring forth bible according to as it is written to prove the stance I take . The stance is based on what is written. Not what is suggested, thought, guessed, supposedly or specially interpreted.

Scripture didn't teach anything about "special interpretation".

Jesus didn't specially interpret anything. He just gave or quoted scripture as written and made his point.

Scripture say "of no private interpretation".

Jesus said I believe "have you not read" ...."for it is WRITTEN" or "have you not heard".

He didn't say "here's my interpretation " or "here is the interpretation from the church" or none folly like that .

Jesus who is God Almighty, the first and the last according to the scripture which is the Father because if you say he is not the Father, you just denied the Father being the first and last , the Almighty, has chosen you.

You that claim you choose to serve God of the scriptures, scriptures says "let God be true and EVERY man a liar".

Many gonna be lying liars. Scripture teaches you didn't choose him.

So what is the opposing side to say?

Scripture say I believe, if not mistaken, "what can you do after the king?"

The opposite side is in the affirmative so I'll let the case be made based on the bible.

I'll comeback and continue on about God who is the one that chooses you, if he's going to .

See, because the scriptures say, many are called.

There's going to be many. You think about that .

The many is millions and millions.

All men are drawn unto him .

How be it, few are chosen.

Now this can be a very straightforward exchange. People want to comment and comment and comment but can't step in the lion's den, but they , lacking the boldness, lacking the confidence for anything that has no true defense.

Word of God biblical scriptures say "prove all things".

People in the scriptures searched the scriptures daily whether these things be so.

So being that God chose you, where was your will to choose him?

Better yet, who's will is it according to?

The opposite side can answer those questions or pass them up. I'll be following up with all this the next round.

According to the scripture, God chooses those whom he chooses, he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy.

He chose you to holiness, not christianity. By your will , man's will , man will join christianity, raise his right hand and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as his personal savior.

That man according to his will which is the will of the flesh will be subject to it and will say " Lord Lord have I not......".

Man according to his will continues on in sin and not true holiness as God commanded.

I'll be looking for scriptures that teach and say man has the will and is free of choosing to serve God himself alone of his own of his works.

Of man that he was good and would have goodness to decide to walk in holiness without the spirit prior to receiving the spirit of God.

I'll be looking for scriptures to support all that.

Oh yes, this topic of freewill goes deep. It's not just choosing on the face of it. Being able to choose will carry many implications and burdens on the shoulders of them that claim to boast of any will of themselves.

So I'm going to fallback, take my seat and watch with attentiveness what the opposing side actual exact words are compared to what the scriptures say.

You got the floor.

"Probably because there wasn’t a Church yet."

"Probably".....

Paul didn't need an interpretation from some church. He said what the Lord said.

Nobody needed an interpretation. Jesus said what he said just how it's said in these scriptures. He taught you either going to believe it or reject it or hold to it for some time and let it go.

So we need "according to as it written". Meaning we have to read the opposing side's points in the text. Not private interpretations.

I tell you, if we don't read what the opposing side is saying, we have no way to verify it is scriptural at all. Don't add to pure words, don't add to the prophecy of the book or any of that.

"Your logic chain doesn’t work. Saying Jesus is the first and the last but not the Father does not make the Father not the first and the last. The first and the last is something both of them can have since they are both fully God."

It isn't logic, it's scripture for the millionth time or more. Scripture teaches this God is the first and the last, none before none formed after.

Now where are you getting this second God from that's not the Father?

Nowhere because there's no scripture for it.

"How can there even be obedience if there is not free will? What’s the point of warnings to repent if we cannot choose to repent?"

So this is the best you can do. You have to rationalize in your thinking instead of getting scripture that says God gives freewill to choose to serve him. Ok .

What else you got to say?

"Notice the word “foreknowledge” too. Predestination is based on God’s foreknowledge, not what God determines. God has a plan for everyone, and that plan is to make it heaven."

Let's go to Ephesians 1

"1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

Ok so like always I give you what the scriptures says. I don't say it says things it doesn't. My point you can read from scripture.

So the FAITHFUL that Paul is talking to was chosen. Before they existed, before anything existed such as the foundation of the world. We didn't read anywhere these folks are faithful and chose that of their will.

Predestined not according to the people. Predestined is being decided prior to the people existing so the people didn't decide according to their will but it says "of his will".

Where did it say God gave them the will?

This is what I'm yet to get what the opposing side to read for us .

We can read "according to the good pleasure of his will".

"Also, if you believe that God destines some people to hell, can you explain how this makes God all-loving?"

Sorry but not the debate. If you want to arrange a separate topic on that, you'll have the burden to find the scripture that says "God is all loving" because I know some scripture where he hates.

"So being that God chose you, where was your will to choose him?

Better yet, who's will is it according to?"

The opposing side didn't challenge this because the book teaches that God chooses you , not you choosing him.

Sorry but that's the truth .

"Well, do you read and understand directly from the Lord? I don’t think so."

I understand that's what you THINK.

Anybody that is going to consider what the scriptures says , the LORD will give understanding.

The scriptures say consider what I say and that the Lord give you understanding. So understanding comes from the Lord.

Do you have faith in the Lord or in the interpretation of man?

I don't know who taught you that you go by "church interpretation" but that individual is speaking outside the Bible, outside the oracles of God.

"It’s not a second God. You just make that assumption going into the debate. The Father must have a Son or He is not the Father."

So being that it's not a second God, it has to be the same God that is already Father. So if you say the Son is God and you say God is the Father, no other God , it's the same one.

It's the same God. No matter which title you use, it's the same one God. So being finicky over it saying it's not the Father, it's the son or it's the son , not the Father is double minded as the scripture says, your position is unstable in all its ways.

"What is His will?"

It's right there in Ephesians 1, the very scripture I gave. Where it teaches about being predestined, in verse 11 , it teaches he works all things after the counsel of HIS WILL.

"As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live. (Ezekiel 33:11 DRB)

[He] will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth… (1 Timothy 2:4)"

Notice how none of this says according to their will or he gave them the will to choose to live. You steady find scripture that does not say what you want it to say or should say and you read into it.

You don't have to read into the scripture I give. I said it says "after the counsel of his will".

So because God desires not the death of the wicked and wills all men to be saved, what does God do ? How does God work it?

Ephesians 1

"4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Did that say the people chose or he hath chosen?

Now if you're honest, read the scripture and say amen.

"5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the to the good pleasure of his will,"

His will . His will.

What the opposing side has to do is very simple.

Get scripture that says according to our will , we choose, and of our works.

Get that scripture. Stop getting scripture that you interpret to mean that instead of finding it written.

You should have been taught that when you are to prove all things, you have to find it WRITTEN, WRITTEN.

NOT SUGGESTED. NOT SPECIALLY INTERPRETED.

I don't know who taught you or where you learned this stuff from, but the scriptures convey in the time you ought to be teachers , you need taught again.

" “Of his will” means that God has a plan for everyone. He already knows what will happen. His plan takes into account all these things."

It's not just his will and knowing what will happen. He WORKS ...... WORKS....HE .... WORKS ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL .

Let's not forget that. He knows all things as he WORKS all things. So it's him working, not a person working out his or her salvation.

"That becomes even more problematic since it would mean God causes evil and then evil is good since it is His will, which is good."

It's a problem for you because you not adhering to him working his will. All we have to do is stick to the topic.

Does God work his will according to his will for you to choose him or is it your will without his spirit?

We don't have to get into the "causes evil and good" making this more than what we need to argue .

"Let’s look at some then"

We don't have to. Just don't make statements such as "God is all loving".

You put your own foot in your mouth.

"Look at the words that show God gives us the choice between life and death and blessings and curses. God tells us to choose life. He tells us to obey and adhere to Him."

Where are the words "people have freewill" and "according to the will of yourselves, you've chosen to follow God"?

Just find where we can read that.

I say ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.

Guess what , can I prove that statement biblically?

John 15:16

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you"

I give you exactly what it says to prove the point about who chooses who.

You're giving me what you interpret scriptures to mean according to you. But instead of doing that , just find a statement written black and white.

So where it says "Lord thy God, and obey his voice, and adhere to him", is that what it is because the people according to them chose or did God choose?

It never said in any of those verses, the people chose. Just because you have a command, doesn't mean people followed it on their own or out of their will.

"Lord thy God, and obey his voice, and adhere to him"

The people will do this how ?

John 15:16

"But I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain"

"We are told not to abuse our freedom, which wouldn’t make sense if there is no free will."

Stop looking for what makes sense and look for what is written. This is your huge problem. Is that because you try to look for what makes sense, you run with a personal interpretation that makes sense.

If the scripture doesn't say what you are interpreting, lean not unto it.

This is why you think freewill, freewill, freewill because it makes sense to you rather than actually reading it in text. You're adding to text instead of just reading it as is.

If you notice, when I prove any part of my stance, you can just read it verbatim. It's not subject to interpretation. It's subject to what is written. I have no control over what is written which is objective.

You have control over interpretation which is subjective.

"We are told not to abuse our freedom, which wouldn’t make sense if there is no free will."

So you think if the bible teaches anything, it would have to make sense , right. It has to appeal to natural understanding.

This is what atheists base their standards on and come up with so called contradictions.

But if this is the proper standard, the scriptures are not really spiritual writings at all .

"Some Questions for You:

Why did God create the unsaved?

Are we called to love our enemies? If so, in what way and how much?

Doesn’t God cause evil if He wills His will through people?

Why does God send people to hell?

Should we preach the gospel to everyone?"

I gather this is why you are not receiving what I'm saying and feel more comfortable with your interpretation of some verses.

I just urge you to start approaching the bible building a stance on what is written and not what is privately interpreted.

For instance. Does God choose you or do you choose him?

Is it man's will or the will of God?

Now , watch how I base that stance off of written scripture where it just answers those questions as is without me even explaining because the scripture has the written explanation.

John 15:16

"You did not choose me, but I chose you", in answer to the first question.

2 Peter 1:21

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost", in answer to the second .

Not by the will of man. He chose you to produce fruit. In this example, the fruit of prophesizing.

Scripture say" For who can resist his will?”

Hallelujah.

There AIN'T NO MAN.....MORE POWERFUL..... STRONGER THAN GOD OF THE SCRIPTURE.

I yield.

We're going to go this way because I'm beating my head against the wall and it's like this in every subject.

If you have any questions for me on the topic, they have to be relevant, not about the cause of people going to hell or love or hate , just the freewill, that's it, present them and I can answer according to scripture.

I'm just not going to say the same thing over and over.

Present questions in a nuance fashion by the way and we can take it from there .

I've given what the bible READS , not shows. "Shows" is private interpretation.

Ask your questions and I'll answer according to as written.

Thank you for your participation in the topic. We're bringing this to a close. I said what I said.

The scriptures I gave backed it up.

I'll answer the last minute questions from I what believe scriptures says and provide scripture.

"Do any believe humans have freewill in any way? If so, how much?"

Yes . To the first question.

I'll expound in connection to the second answer to the second question.

People have freewill. According to the scripture I can give what is written.

Let's get to the book of scriptures.

First let us breakdown "freewill".

Let's get the "free" part of it as it pertains to people.

First Corinthians chapter seven:

"22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave. "

So you have he that is free.

What also is he that is free?

Is he free with his will precisely?

I believe this was already taught in the debate so you asking these questions, you weren't truly understanding or reading well what I stated or just focused on rehearsed talking points.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man.

2 Peter 1:21 said "not in old time by the WILL of man ".

So man who is he is free is free with his will.

"What type of predestination do you believe in?"

I believe exactly what the scripture says it is BECAUSE IT IS A SCRIPTURE BASED TOPIC.

That's all that is valid here.

The scriptures don't even breakdown predestination into different types. So where do you get "type of predestination" from ?

That's very cunning and off biblical basis.

This is what I stress . We have to stop with what a person believes personally and stop with what a person thinks.

This is not how you approach scripture according to scripture.

When Christ said deny yourself, that also includes your mind, your ways, the way you think just how you do when you read other things.

You can't approach this the same way.

The scriptures just say predestined or predestinated.

So leave it at that. You don't break it down into that type or this type.

See that's what the serpent did. He took the word and added to it, twisted it up, used it deceitfully.

Through the trinity doctrine, denying the doctrine of holiness, denying the name Jesus Christ and him being holy God the Father.

It says in Ephesians 1 and at verse 5

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

We don't have to do any kind of subjective recreational interpreting.

The question is, did those that are , that are as the text says "predestinated", destinate themselves according to their will?

According to the verse, NO.

Therefore, according to the scripture you don't choose. Period. You don't choose to destinate yourself. You are those people that are, were PREDESTINED to be children of God.

So you saying you chose by your will is against scripture.

You can fight this and kick against it. But if you say you chose according to your will to be a child of God after you read this verse, you are a liar.

Now if you chose to be christian or christianity or Mormon , etc., sure I give you that .

This verse here only says " the adoption of children".

We don't have to twist it up, convolute it and make it complicated after God made it simple.

Talking about "well what type " and "how much". Why look for room and excuses and loopholes?

Scripture say inexcusable.

"Do you believe God wills everything?"

Yes . According to Ephesians 1 and 11

He works, HE WORKS, He is God. Scripture say know ye not the Lord HE IS GOD.

"11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"

Of HIM WHO WORKETH.....ALLLLL THINGS.

There's that " predestinated", again. This is of his own will.

Scripture say "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my." "'My purpose will stand".

Scripture says "For it is God who WORKETH in you, both to WILL and to accomplish, according to his good WILL .

All of these scriptures, we just keep reading his will his will his will .

You haven't gotten one scripture that says it is our will that we are a child of God , to serve God, that our will we work it for God or that the people choose to do any of this.

Go through the scriptures I gave, look them up. We can have another question and answer session later.

Peace be.