Has the bible been proven false and to be a fairy tale?

Please quote exactly. Do not rephrase or reinterpret. Answer all questions directly. Failure to comply with all this is an automatic forfeit.

Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

Round 1

1 of 4

Mal

Con #1

Alright so the bible from Genesis to revelation, the gospels concerning Jesus Christ, is all that false, never happened in reality such as the reality we're in between myself and the so called opposing side on this topic?

Here's where the opposing side has the burden of proving this is all false like proving a story out of a movie or film in this reality that we watch is false .

That should be clear enough.

transgENDER_DRAGON

Pro #2

My opponent is shifting the burden of proof. It is already known that it is impossible to defend the entire bible, so my opponent says basically "Certainly not all the bible is false."

All fairy tales have some truth and some falsehood. Different fairy tales have different amounts of truth and lies. All fairy tales are meant to teach us lessons. Even lies can help humans get in the right place.

Most of Genesis is fairy tales: only a short 6 day creation, the talking snake, an impossibly huge flood, the creation of languages, people living too long. All these elements can be found in other mythologies. The rest of the bible gives us angels, which are basically just fairies. Even the bible never gives angels a consistent name, are they messengers, sons of God, gods, spirits? Fairy is easily just another name for angels.

The bible even contains parables, which serve the exact same purpose as fairy tale. Telling lies to make kids behave good. The bible admits some of it is symbolic and only meant to teach us lessons.

The bible says ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired. The bible also says God cannot lie. Since the bible contains plenty of lies in it, this makes it very unreliable since it claims perfection. The bible makes huge claims about this word, the next world, and about if we should trust God and his word. The bible claims to be perfect but it just lies about itself.

Round 2

2 of 4

Mal

Con #3

"My opponent is shifting the burden of proof. It is already known that it is impossible to defend the entire bible, so my opponent says basically "Certainly not all the bible is false." "

The opposite side is the affirmative. This means the affirmative has allllllll the burden and none of the relief I have for not meeting such.

Very simple. You the opposing side, I'm talking to you. Prove the biblical scriptures from Genesis to revelation, the inspired words of God are false.

"Most of Genesis is fairy tales: only a short 6 day creation, the talking snake, an impossibly huge flood, the creation of languages, people living too long. All these elements can be found in other mythologies."

So your argument is that because common things are shared between the scriptures and mythologies, whatever is concluded about mythologies must be concluded the same way of the scriptures.

Which is assumption, not evidence. So question being that the Bible is not referred to as a mythology, what is a mythology?

"The rest of the bible gives us angels, which are basically just fairies. Even the bible never gives angels a consistent name, are they messengers, sons of God, gods, spirits? Fairy is easily just another name for angels."

Please give evidence. Not an opinion.

In this topic, evidence actually means proving the reality as stated in the first round.

This isn't a discussion on what you think.

Simple fact is, nobody has disproven the bible to our awareness. Otherwise, these religions wouldn't exist at all.

"The bible even contains parables, which serve the exact same purpose as fairy tale. "

Please give evidence. Not an opinion.

"Telling lies to make kids behave good."

Please give evidence. Not an opinion.

"The bible admits some of it is symbolic and only meant to teach us lessons."

Totally irrelevant to the burden you have not met.

"Since the bible contains plenty of lies in it, this makes it very unreliable since it claims perfection. The bible makes huge claims about this word, the next world, and about if we should trust God and his word. The bible claims to be perfect but it just lies about itself."

Ok so give the proof. Give it or just admit that this your opinion and I'll have an excellent counter to it.

I yield.

transgENDER_DRAGON

Pro #4

The burden of proof is on YOU!!!! You have to prove the entire bible is true. Not just parts of the bible. ALL of it. The bible even claims to be completely inspired and true. Fairy tales all have some truth to them, so I clearly don't have to prove the entire bible false.

Many who consider themselves to believe in the bible have decided to abandon the literal meaning of Genesis and start putting it on par with myths and fairy tales, simply calling them literary lessons assisted by divine power. Many are willing to change the definition of myth to allow the Genesis creation and flood story to count while not necessarily being completely fiction. Genesis was just copied from other cultures, it matches perfectly, there is no denial of this.

The Bible basically has fairies. Angels are just fairies. The Bible can't even decide what to call them:

Sons of GodJob 1:6; Job 38:7Refers to the heavenly beings present at creation and in divine assemblies.GodsPsalm 82:1Here, "gods" refers to divine beings or rulers, sometimes interpreted as angels.MessengersMalachi 2:7Angles are often depicted as messengers, delivering God's messages to humanity.SpiritsHebrews 1:14Describes angels as ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation.CherubimGenesis 3:24; Exodus 25:18-22A type of angelic being depicted as guarding the Garden of Eden and present in the Holy of Holies.SeraphimIsaiah 6:2Angels described as having six wings, serving directly in the presence of God, proclaiming His holiness.Archangels1 Thessalonians 4:16; Jude 1:9A higher rank of angels, with Michael as a notable example, often seen leading in spiritual battles.

The Bible contains plenty of parables and even admits they aren't history and are only meant to teach us lessons, just like fairy tales:

The SowerMatthew 13:3-9Illustrates how different people respond to God's word based on their hearts and circumstances.The Good SamaritanLuke 10:25-37Teaches the importance of loving others, especially those who are different from us.The Prodigal SonLuke 15:11-32A story about forgiveness, grace, and redemption, focusing on a wayward son returning home.The Lost SheepMatthew 18:12-14Demonstrates God’s love and concern for the lost and the importance of every individual.The Mustard SeedMatthew 13:31-32Symbolizes the Kingdom of God growing from small beginnings into a great entity.The TalentsMatthew 25:14-30Teaches about using God-given gifts wisely and being accountable for them.The Workers in the VineyardMatthew 20:1-16Illustrates God's grace and generosity, showing that all are equal in His eyes regardless of when they come to Him.

Ultimately, Christians have given up on calling the bible history and even the bible admits it has parables while claiming to be fully inspired.

Round 3

3 of 4

Mal

Con #5

"The burden of proof is on YOU!!!! You have to prove the entire bible is true. Not just parts of the bible. ALL of it. The bible even claims to be completely inspired and true. Fairy tales all have some truth to them, so I clearly don't have to prove the entire bible false."

My slow friend , you either read the topic title too fast or just are confused.

The topic question is :

"Has the bible been proven false and to be a fairy tale?"

You are the affirmative, in the pro position which means yes. By taking this position, you are affirming the positive claim, YES....THE BIBLE HAS BEEN PROVEN FALSE.

SO I'M ASKING YOU FOR THE EVIDENCE THAT PROVES THIS.

DO YOU GET IT?

I really got to break this down. You've offered nothing to substantiate.

You do forfeit by not answering my questions. That is a direct violation of the direct stipulation.

So like I said last round, you are to prove that from Genesis to revelation, the inspired words of God are false.

That's a heavy burden you decided to bare. You have to prove that the words, inspired words of God, not of man , of God are false thus questioning the existence of God altogether.

You've brought nothing because you have nothing.

I rest my case.

transgENDER_DRAGON

Pro #6

I beg to differ. The affirmative does not always have the BOP. You purposely worded the debate topic in such a way to make it look like the burden of proof is on me. Claiming the bible is fully inspired requires proof.

It is very unlikely all of the bible is true. It most likely has something false in it. All fairy tales contains a mix of truth and lies, just in different amounts.

And finally, the bible claims all of it is inspired. If one thing is not true, the bible lied about being all truth.

Round 4

4 of 4

Mal

Con #7

Thanks anyway.

The opposing side has brought nothing but opinion and forfeited the questions and FORFEITED the topic.

The answer to the question stands. "No". The bible has not been proven false.

Case closed.

transgENDER_DRAGON

Pro #8

FORFEITED

TheAnalyticalAdvocate

Idk what I am, but the problem is that pro in this case would have burden of proof, just by how the debate is titled. If it was something like, is God real the opposition would have the burden. You have to look close at the debates you except. I sort of always try and word my debates in a way both sides have the burden 9 times out of 10. Granted that isn’t easy all the time in theology debates.

Sovereign

Well the atheists in this site seem to be a bit slow

ChatKnight

Yeah. A talking snake.

SatanLucy

Atheists are getting tired, its too much for them.

Mal

The fight for atheism is dead here.

TheAnalyticalAdvocate

Criterion	Con	Tie	Pro
Winner

Reason:

So neither side did that good in this debate. Con’s attitude wasn’t the best either, but I am voting for Con due to how the debate title is framed. The title is framed as “ Has the bible been proven false and to be a fairy tale?” Based on this the resolution is framed on the atheist to provide the burden of proof. To do that pro should have argued in terms of historicity, prophecy’s he thinks failed, or reliability issues he sees in the scripture. Granted the framing of this debate heavily favors con because it frames as if you have to prove the whole Bible wrong, which is a big ask in one debate. But again, pro signed up for this debate. It would have made more sense of the burden would be on the atheist if the topic would be is naturalism true. A debate topic that could put a burden on both sides would be is the Bible reliable (Well if con stipulates in the description that burden of proof is on both sides). Anyway the main story is pro didn’t fulfill their burden of proof, but the topic was extremely flawed. Their is no way I would have accepted this topic and how it was framed lol!

Ragnar Global Moderator

Criterion	Con	Tie	Pro
Winner

Reason:

This is effectively a tie, with conduct pushing victory to pro… Not the worst conduct, but the type of game played by the instigator that irks me.

Sitting back spectating and claiming BoP hasn’tbeen absolutely reached, only works if they take no steps towards it. With their various biblical quotations and showing the common linguistics connection of fairies to angels, it became con’s duty to then refute the weak case offered, which he chose to not do (opting instead to rest his case when confronted with sone biblical evidence… weak evidence, but the voter should be shown why it doesn’t work)

ShtLp

Criterion	Con	Tie	Pro
Winner

Reason:

I don't think pro did the greatest job defending their side, but I think they did much better than con who never once established that the bible was true, before asking if it was proven false. Also, con seems to have a habit of being purposefully vague in order to leave room to shift their arguments and the burden. Pro wins.

The other vote evaluation it was pretty spot on. I just think that pro did enough.

fauxlaw Global Moderator

Criterion	Con	Tie	Pro
Winner

Reason:

Neither participant really conducted a debate in its traditional sense. The problem begins with Con, being the instigator, Presenting a question rather than a resolve that lands on one side or the other of a topic, regardless of topic. Con seems to believe debate is a Q&A, which is really more appropriate for the Forum, but not Debate. With a Q&A, burden of proof [BoP] becomes blurred, and Con took the tactic that all BoP belonged to Pro, while ignoring in the Resolve [topic] or Description to declare Pro's side of the Q&A. Pro should not have engaged this exercise under those circumstances. Con has been warned about this style of "debate" before. Neither declare a response to the question, which is a simple yes/no question, and would absolve Pro of making declaration of a proper BoP. To this voter, that is a flawed debate proposal.
Pro's R1 makes clear that Pro is taking the approach that the Bible is true, but makes no argument to that effect.
With nothing offered to rebut from Con, Con rightly argues that BoP should be shared, but then offers no real argument for a false Bible.
Thus the argument proceeds through all 4 rounds. Pro offers several verses own R2, but they seem to support the value of the Bible, rather than declare it is false, so is counter-productive to Pro. Con should have offered similar argument, and this may have gone Con's direction. Pro does forfeit R4, but then, Con argues from the outset an improper claim, that if Pro does not accept the total burden of proof, or does not answer questions, Pro forfeits the debate.
No, I will not award Con the debate for making what is a Forum statement, but not a debate argument.
This is a non-debate, and a tied result, but a caution to Con to do a proper debate, or stop debating and populate the Forum section. This has been suggested to Con previously: Debate is not a Q&A.

Round 1

Round 2

Round 3

Round 4

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