"The question is whether someone born of God can and will still sin. My position has never been, 'grace means keep living in sin however you want'. Your entire use of Romans 6 is aimed at a claim I did not make. "
Well then, if you don't fight Romans 6, you don't make a case against it so you might as well agree with me.
"The issue is not whether believers should remain in sin as a lifestyle...it’s whether they still commit sin at all within a life that is being changed for the better until final glorification."
No that's not the issue. I'm just going to bring you right back to the topic question.
"Can you sin and go on sinning in Christ being born of God ?"
So the issue is surrounding being born of God. If you know anything about being born of God, it is being born of the spirit. Being born again. No where in that question says anything about"final glorification " and "being changed for the better ".
You adding in all these extra things that cloud the basic subject which is dealing with being born again.
It's just as plain as that . We got plain scripture that teaches about them born of God.
Now you oughta come say amen to that and give up the mic.
"Romans 6:1-2 says, “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” Agreed. But read what Paul is rejecting...using grace as a justification to remain under sin. He is not teaching sinless perfection. The whole chapter is about a change in dominion. Sin no longer rules. You are no longer a slave to sin. That is not the same as saying a believer never commits another sin."
You cannot commit another sin if you are no longer a servant of it. No longer a slave to it.
The scripture said YE WERE.......WERE...the servants of sin.
Somebody saying I was a servant and still serve it or GOING TO SERVE IT or can't say I will never serve sin again, whichever way you spin it, you're double talking. It's double minded-ness.
So your doctrine, most likely christianity, your argument is unstable in all its ways like the scripture teaches.
"You say “dead to sin means the dead don’t do anything.” That’s not how Paul is using the language. It’s relational and covenantal...not literal. If “dead to sin” meant total absence of sin, then there would be no reason for any command to resist sin, no need for sanctification, and no internal conflict passages at all."
Dead to sin means you don't serve it. Period. How can a dead person serve anything, let alone sin?
Scripture teaches in Job, the dead ain't raising back out. The dead ain't doing anything. You are dead to sin, you ain't doing sin.
How are you going to do something God forbids? How are you going to do something but that which you are slave to obeying?
See , you haven't realized, those born of God have become vessels taken over as instruments of righteousness. This is how those the children of God don't sin because the holy Spirit is alive in them walking in them. There's no sin in the Father the holy Spirit. He's the one walking. This is what Paul teaches in 1-2 Corinthians 6.
You really got to go line upon line with this , here a little , there a little.
Of course there's going to be a command to repent and resist the devil or sin. There's always going to be the everlasting word. There always going to be laws. See, Paul taught that too. Is that the law is what?....... HOLY.
True holiness according to the bible .....exists..... and is everlasting.
Sanctification are those that have been born of God completely sanctified..how do we know?
They CANNOT SIN. THEY LET NOT SIN REIGN IN THEIR MORTAL.....MORTAL...MORTAL... BODIES... according to Romans 6.
Internal conflict is before being born again.
Like Simon who got baptized who you can say was a believer but was not born again. For his heart was not right and who gives you a new heart?
Don't read these scriptures and use common sense. Read them and find line upon line scriptures that explain each line.
Now I understand that you have all these objections and it's only because you simply haven't read far enough in the scriptures. Once you do, you're able to harmonize all these scriptures.
"Now here is where your argument collapses.
1 John 2:1 says “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
That is written to believers. John tells them not to sin… and then immediately acknowledges that they do sin and points them to Christ as their advocate. That alone disproves the idea that being born of God means you cannot sin in any sense."
Right, BELIEVERS. THE DEVIL IS A BELIEVER.
The subject is the children of God..those born of God.
See I don't even have to argue. I just let the scripture do the talking. Once you speak as the oracles of God my friend.
The scriptures says plainly those born of God cannot sin.
It's like you can't accept that written text because of your pre-conceived stance of other scriptures.
"And that lines up perfectly with 1 John 1:8...“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” Again, addressed to believers."
That's where you made shipwreck of the scriptures.
"So now you have a problem. You are reading 1 John 3 as “cannot sin at all,” but John himself already told believers they do sin and must not deny it.
That means 1 John 3 cannot be talking about absolute sinlessness. It is talking about pattern and identity. The one born of God does not live in sin as a settled, unrepentant practice. Sin is no longer their master. That fits Romans 6. Your reading does not."
I got no problem. I doest well like the bible say.
Here is the topic question:
"Can you sin and go on sinning in Christ being born of God ?"
I'm going to have you do the honors.
What does 1 John 3:9 K.J.V. say?
"You even say the topic is not “never sinning at all,” but then you turn around and argue exactly that from 1 John 3. That’s a contradiction in your own position.
So everything lines up much more cleanly on my side."
Alright, this is easy. Just letting the scripture talk. Scripture teaches, think to take not what to say but the holy Spirit will give it to you.
So.......
Here is the topic question:
"Can you sin and go on sinning in Christ being born of God ?"
I'm going to have you do the honors.
What does 1 John 3:9 K.J.V. say?
"Believers are no longer under sin’s dominion (Romans 6). Believers still sin and must not deny it (1 John 1:8). Believers who sin have an advocate (1 John 2:1). Believers do not live in sin as their identity or practice (1 John 3).
That is consistent. Your reading forces John to contradict himself and turns Romans 6 into something it was never arguing."
First off the scripture don't argue. Not what they're for or good for according to the book of Timothy.
Notice how you keep saying.... believers..... believers..... believers. You won't say children of God. Those born of God because it's going to testify against you. Going to condemn you.
Scripture teaches those born of God CANNOT SIN....not sin sometimes and serve two masters ....which the scriptures say YOU CAN'T DO. You are only a servant to whom you obey. Scripture teach those born of God cannot sin which would mean they're holy unto an everlasting life as Romans 6 teaches and lines with Jesus where he basically said in John 3 , you have to be BORN of the spirit to enter the kingdom of God, eternal life. Jesus said this is life eternal.
"So the question you need to answer, along with core questions you ignored from my response.
When 1 John 2:1 says “if any man sin, we have an advocate,” who is John talking about...and how does that fit with your claim that someone born of God cannot sin?
Things ignored from my last response..."
Any man that sins . Just as it says. Any man not born of God and who you say is a believer. You said it yourself. A believer. Which the topic is not dealing with just a believer. A believer can be still a servant of sin which YOU DON'T DENY.
The devil believes.
The scriptures say "He that committeth sin is of the devil".
You ain't really saying nothing. You can do nothing against the truth.
"You never addressed the distinction between sin’s dominion and sin’s presence (Romans 6 is about rule, not total absence).
You did not engage 1 John 2:1 at all, which explicitly says believers can sin and have an advocate.
You ignored 1 John 1:8 being written to believers, which directly contradicts your “cannot sin at all” reading.
You shifted the claim from “can and will still sin” to “should live in sin,” which is not my position.
You asserted 1 John 3 as absolute without reconciling it with 1 John 1-2, creating a contradiction you didn’t resolve."
Here's my address buddy. You making total shipwreck of all these scriptures.
So to close this out.
Here is the topic question:
"Can you sin and go on sinning in Christ being born of God ?"
I'm going to have you do the honors.
What does 1 John 3:9 K.J.V. say?
Then tell me do I have TO CLAIM what you just read.
I'm having a good time with this. Scriptures say I delight.
Con
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