There needs to be a null vote added to win/lose/draw in debates

Started by fauxlaw

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#1 •••

Example: the debate Islam is Useless in Every sense [https://www.debatecraft.com/debates/d/71/islam-is-useless-in-every-sense], neither opponent enter argument. Pro [the instigator] forfeited each round, a full forfeiture, and thus automatic loss, but Con never wrote an argument in any round, but merely acknowledged forfeiture by Pro on round one, and rested on that statement for the balance of rounds, That is not a winning argument, either, so should not deserve to win, but there is a vote declaring Con the winner. How can one win a debate merely by default, It skews the rating of the opponent who has not legitimately offered argument. Surely, that cannot be. I argue. for adding a fourth voting option: a null vote, which does not award either opponent.

The null vote is needed to distinguish such debate results from a debate in which both opponents participate, but on which no voter registers any vote, which result is rendered as a tie. On DART, I was one of the leading contenders for such debate results: a tie because no one voted even though both participants participated. A tie is deserved in that instance, but not as above. In the case presented above, neither opponent even deserves the tie since neither participated. There must be a legit argument to meet BoP by at least one participant in at least one round in order to deserve a winning vote by at least one voter. If participants agree to a debate, to win or draw, they must participate in at least one round, better, of course, in all rounds. When one forfeits, the other can enter argument, and then waive following rounds to the end, or until the forfeiting participant enters argument in a later round.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#2 •••
@fauxlaw

Just remove voting system as a whole. I dont really see point in it. "Oh a few people said you won a debate" - yeah

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#3 •••
@fauxlaw

If no one made arguments, why are you bothering to vote on it?

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#4 •••
@fauxlaw

Honestly, some debates could probably stand to be deleted.

(If the participants agreed to such)

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#5 •••
@SatanLucy
Just remove voting system as a whole. I dont really see point in it. "Oh a few people said you won a debate" - yeah

I mean we need some way to score it and give feedback to the debaters. It's a competition.

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#6 •••
@Alyssa

Had no one else voted, I woulds not have bothered, but, not voting is a big problem because there is little incentive, but it is not an unpopular activity among this membership. I wanted to do as much as possible to even the score, at least. I have avoided voting on such debates before, but I don't like the denial.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#7 •••
@Leaning

Agreed, but we don't do that, either. I just don't think any lack of effort deserves a vote.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#8 •••
@fauxlaw

Wait, but your vote doesn't actually even out Kohai's vote to where neither side would win. xD I'm so fucking confused.

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#9 •••

Granted there's an interesting discussion to be had whether the debate referenced in the OP should count as both sides effectively forfeiting (because fauxlaw is right in that literally neither side made an argument), but this thread is not that xD

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#10 •••
@Alyssa
your vote doesn't actually even out Kohai's vote


No you're correct, but Kohai is a friend, and not just because we've shared avatars, but because we've engaged in a number of competitive debates and I enjoy seeing how he thinks, and I think he thinks the same about me. And I detest lack of effort, both on argument in debate and by non-voting. I don't top the voting list for nothing.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#11 •••
@fauxlaw

Wait but like, this vote is still super weird. You said you voted because someone else voted and you didn't want to see either of them win because neither made arguments, but then voted in a way that doesn't accomplish that. So did you vote just to put another vote on the tally board? Like...huh? xD

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#12 •••
@Savant
I mean we need some way to score it and give feedback to the debaters. It's a competition.


Its a competition which is effectively killing our site. Few users already messaged me about quitting site, and yeah, one of mentioned issues was a voting system. Some got their votes removed, and some complained about voting as a whole being too demanding. At this point, its not even my opinion but feedback from new users.

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#13 •••
@Alyssa

Within my vote, Also suggested what I have with this post. After posting my vote, I realized I might acquire more traction - at least more eyes-on the dilemma - than with my vote, alone.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#14 •••
@SatanLucy

I understand the frustration, and one of them is not having any of the CofCs or Instructions as we had on DART. I don't know what they're waiting for to post that information, but in the meantime, new users who have no experience with this type of site do not have a roadmap to follow, and it shows, both in their debate participation and in their voting. There's a fully organized management and operations team of people, now, but still treat the site like a new start-up. We're a partial handful of months from a year in operation. Time to mature-up.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#15 •••

The entire point of the website is to be a model of competitive debate so that people can practice and hone their skills in something that is vaguely reflective of real world competitive debate. If your friends are looking for any other generic forum board, there are a multitude of better options for them to peruse.

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