Morality of honor | Forum

#1

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I see honor being mentioned in different contexts in movies and anime, but it was difficult for me to determine what exactly is the principle behind it. From refusing to attack unarmed enemy, to loyalty which goes to extreme cult like dedication, to keeping your word always, to refusing to harm innocents even when battle could be lost because of it, to prioritising community over individuals and leader over community. So I decided to make formal version of argument of this specific type of morality which I struggle with to understand because different versions of it appear everywhere. So first, refusing to attack unarmed enemy. Unarmed enemy who refuses to fight is not a threat, at least not obvious threat. So principle here could be to only attack those who are obvious threat to you, or in other words, those who attack you. The opposite principle doesnt work because attacking those who dont attack you would result in attacking everyone. And we cant say for sure that it is sometimes okay to attack those who dont attack you. About loyalty. If person isnt loyal to anyone or anything or any cause, person doesnt have any consistent goals in life, making it impossible to guarantee that person is even trustworthy. Such person isnt even loyal to himself, and could betray anyone, even own principles. So principle of not being loyal to anything is actually self contradicting, because consistent application of any principle requires loyalty to said principle in the first place. Keeping your word is likewise important. If person doesnt keep word, there is no reason to think person even believes in any principle. Refusing to harm innocents is likewise important, because if one were to say its okay to harm innocents, everyone could be harmed.

#2

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#3

@SatanLucy

Something could be honorable and moral, but I think it's circumstance-dependent. Honor itself can be a contradiction, because what if the leader tells you to attack an unarmed opponent?

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#4

@Savant

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#5

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#6

@SatanLucy

In the military loyalty to the General is everything.

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(Last edited by bubbatheclown on )

#7

In the real world, outside of the romanticized depictions of popular media, "honor" is usually something tied to the concept of an honor culture, which best understood as an interrelational phenomenon as opposed to an individualistic, privately held ethical code. It's a predominantly male idea, and involves maintaining one's social standing ("honor") at all costs. So for example, doing violence to anyone who would insult you or your family; this can extend to killing family members who bring shame upon the household's name, as was practiced by the paterfamilias of Ancient Rome and in the Muslim world today.

Albeit on the positive side honor cultures have a higher than average chance of being hospitality cultures as well. I don't think it's an accident that the birthplace of Bushido also has greeters bowing politely to anyone entering/exiting a store: the store's "honor" is, to a certain extent, tied to its showing of hospitality to customers. Another example is Afghanistan, where I'm sure your average gun-toting Pashtun wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet through your brain if you questioned the chastity of his unmarried sister but also takes the hospitality rules embedded in Pashtunwali very seriously. A third example would be the American South, on one hand famous for its "southern hospitality" and on the other hand a place that's long been far more prone to respond to insults with violence than elsewhere in the country.

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In the real world, outside of the romanticized depictions of popular media, "honor" is usually something tied to the concept of an honor culture, which best understood as an interrelational phenomenon as opposed to an individualistic, privately held ethical code. It's a predominantly male idea, and involves maintaining one's social standing ("honor") at all costs. So for example, doing violence to anyone who would insult you or your family; this can extend to killing family members who bring shame upon the household's name, as was practiced by the paterfamilias of Ancient Rome and in the Muslim world today. Albeit on the positive side honor cultures have a higher than average chance of being hospitality cultures as well. I don't think it's an accident that the birthplace of Bushido also has greeters bowing politely to anyone entering/exiting a store: the store's "honor" is, to a certain extent, tied to its showing of hospitality to customers. Another example is Afghanistan, where I'm sure your average gun-toting Pashtun wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet through your brain if you questioned the chastity of his unmarried sister but also takes the hospitality rules embedded in Pashtunwali very seriously. A third example would be the American South, on one hand famous for its "southern hospitality" and on the other hand a place that's long been far more prone to respond to insults with violence than elsewhere in the country.

#8

@SatanLucy

Honor from the Latin is just as ambiguous, and therefore variously applicable.

Sort of a cover all word that can justify both the justifiable and the unjustifiable.

And similarly, morality is also variably dictated by circumstance.

So put the two together and what have you got...A somewhat confusing juxtaposition of two abstract concepts.

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#9

@bubbatheclown

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#10

@SergeantLynch

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#11

@SatanLucy

SatanLucy wrote:

I am just exploring different types of moralities. I am not the kind of person to stick to one thing forever.

Yes, we agree that morality is a variable concept.

And for sure, you have propensity for reinvention.

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#12

True honour relies on an individual’s personal integrity and commitment to their own moral compass, even when no one is watching.

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