Why you should respect Machiavelli's work - Machiavelli's life is that of experience

Started by SatanLucy

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#1 •••

Machiavelli wasnt born rich, just in educated middle class.


He rose to power through political skills, getting government position.


then he also fell, was thrown in prison and severely tortured.


Most people would be broken by torture Machiavelli endured. But not Machiavelli. He endured torture, and out of it, came even stronger, using all his experience about betrayal to create his ultimate work: the prince.


this work was based on life of experience, betrayals, and pretending which exists in society.


Machiavelli wrote his book from most painful experience. He learned in the most brutal way truths about society, its masks, its false emotional displays...


His work is a product of pure experience. He is not someone who just wrote out of imagination or research. He wrote his work after he experienced complete fall, betrayal, brutal attacks, degradation, mocking, after entire world turned against him.


Instead of being broken and forgotten, he created a legendary work and became a legend himself, because he wasnt broken by experience, but he used his experience to expose society and politics for what it truly is: a brutal game where everyone wears a mask, and weak ones wont be cared for, but trampled upon.


World rewards power the most, and that is simply fact of life. the ones with power can get away with doing things for which ones without power get ruthlessly punished.


Machiavelli truth is:


  1. What you depend upon is what controls you
  2. If you depend on someone, that person controls you
  3. You have no friends. Everyone has interests, and "friendship" is just current interest
  4. It is only when you completely fall, when you can see who is still on your side
  5. Dont seek to be understood by people who have interest to misunderstand
  6. the less you depend on approval and validation of others, the more sovereign you become
  7. Goal is to become independent, impossible to be controlled, and impossible to be crushed
  8. Dont think emotionally, and dont react to provocations.
  9. Use economy of warfare. Only do something when it achieves goal the best.
  10. When people mock you, your silence defeats their mocking, and your later response crushes them
  11. Become ghost. Remove yourself. Use absence. When you leave, you stop being target and people who mocked you start fighting each other.

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#2 •••
@SatanLucy

All the qualities found in a punching bad.

Niccolò Machiavelli (1469–1527) was, in a literal and political sense, a "punching bag" for the tumultuous political landscape of 16th-century Italy.

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#3 •••
@SatanLucy

Everyone's life is that of experience.


And if you accept the pictures as a reasonable likeness, then it's fair to say that "Machiavelli" was somewhat reptilian in appearance.

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#4 •••
@SergeantLynch

Yes, even tho Machiavelli had experience most other people dont.


He didnt just described politics, he lived it and experienced its full cruelty. His work "Prince" is not him supporting such cruelty, but merely exposing it for what it is, a cold calculated emotionless power driven behavior.

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#5 •••
@SatanLucy

But Machiavelli lived on the same planet as his readers.

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#6 •••
@Debby

Everyone lives on the same Planet...A fact often overlooked.


OK...So a few are whizzing around the Planet in a tin can.

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#7 •••
@SergeantLynch

But empty vessels make the most noise.

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#8 •••
@Debby

Sound is waves.


Noise is created within.


We make all the noise that we hear.



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#9 •••
@SergeantLynch

That must keep you occupied.

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#10 •••
@Debby

Senses are unavoidably occupying.



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#11 •••
@SergeantLynch

It requires a different flushing mechanism.

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#12 •••
@Debby

The tin can?

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#13 •••
@SergeantLynch

You seem well prepared to flush.

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#14 •••
@Debby

Yes, who was it that was extolling the virtues of experience.

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#15 •••
@SergeantLynch

Keep flushing and the name might come back.

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#16 •••
@Debby

Yes, it was Debby.

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#17 •••
@SergeantLynch


SergeantLynch wrote:
Sound is waves.


Nope, waves are not sound without an ear and a brain to perceive them, waves by themselves to not create a subjective sensory experience


Noise is created within.


Yeah, like sound.


We make all the noise that we hear.


The question becomes, if a tree falls crushing Donald Trump and nobody is there to see it, is it still funny?

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#18 •••
@Sidewalker

A. Now that you mention it.



And I won't argue the toss over sound and noise.

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#19 •••
@SergeantLynch

That is not as funny as a tree falling on Trump.

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#20 •••

A well placed bomb taking off his head, which then zooms the length the reflecting pool, nose diving into the far end with a sploosh...Whilst the rest of him runs around the pool like a headless chicken...Now that would be funny.

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#21 •••
@SergeantLynch

Trump was an entertainer before becoming President.

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#22 •••
@SatanLucy

Machiavelli's the 'ends justify the means' is a jaded philosophy incongruent with morality. There are some actions that can never be justified regardless of outcome.

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. - Christopher Hitchens

#23 •••
@SkepticalOne
⚠️ This comment has been marked as offensive.

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#24 •••
@SatanLucy

Yah - thats 'the ends justify the means'.


But, the ends do not justify the means. The morality of an action isn't determined by results.

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. - Christopher Hitchens

#25 •••
@SkepticalOne

Trump is not as skilful as Machiavelli.

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#26 •••
@SkepticalOne
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#27 •••

Trump has succeeded in increasing his wealth while serving as President. The morality of an action is determined by results.

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#28 •••
@SatanLucy

That has no relevance to my point. If you achieve your wants, but lose your humanity in the process what have you gained?

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. - Christopher Hitchens

#29 •••
Trump has succeeded in increasing his wealth while serving as President.


To Debby; Show me the legal statute that prevents a president from increasing their wealth in private business during a term in office. The president is exempt from general criminal conflict-of-interest statutes and is not required to divest from private assets or place them into a blind trust, even though Trump did that in his first term. The reason why Congress cannot do it is that their legislative action does have potential direct effect on the economy and thus, their personal wealth. The president is only cautioned about emoluments. Look it up. Also, by the way, consider that Trump is the only president other than JFK who has denied taking a presidential salary, and he's doing it twice. Fair enough, or is your TDS too overwhelming?

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#30 •••
@SkepticalOne
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