Has "real Capitalism" been tried?

Capitalism in its true form (anarchy or very small military government) would still be better than true Communism. While one or the other doesnt exist, moving towards Communism is consistent with worse outcomes. This is because people in Capitalism naturally achieve what Communism is trying to achieve by government. People work, people gain wealth on their own. Having government regulate it is extra cost, but also worse management due to no cost to effect mode of work which only exists in Capitalism.

Oh, I agree, idealized Capitalism is better than idealized Communism & Capitalism in practice is better than Communism in practice.

This discussion is more oriented towards provoking thoughtful discussion among those that might not have conceived of the idea that, much like people talk about “real Communism”, that there could be a Capitalist equivalent and to then discuss how “real Capitalism” might enter into the discussion/debate.

Thhis targeted discussion has a flaw, because just as there are versions of Communism [incl. Socialism], there are versions of Capitalism lthat are better than others, and that is because politics and economic systems are not necessarily imbued with the same principles, methods, nor result expectations. The two [politics and economics] need one another and affect one another in too many ways to ignore one or the other without mention of the two together.

The question is a bit poorly worded IMO because yes, most economies the world round do consist of private ownership w/ complex models of organization facilitated by such legal instruments as stock, bonds, fiat currency, corporations, etc. This is what capitalism is, and it already exists.

If you mean laissez-faire capitalism, then I'm inclined to think not. It's in the nature of all states to interfere with the economy. That's been true in the United States as well (see the “American System” of the early 19th century), and broadly speaking it has been true for thousands of years. When you're a government official who wants to change things for the better, taxation/redistribution and state coercion are pretty much the only instruments at your disposal to accomplish this, and you are tempted to use them liberally. Same is true if you're a corrupt scumbag who wants to profit off the public's dime.

I would argue that Reaganomics was revolutionary not in practice (the implementation was rather tepid) but because, in theory, it represented the first attempt of its scale to consciously reject the old - or indeed, ancient - statist paradigm of thinking about the economy. But then flash forward 30 something years and the GOP has turned its back on laissez-faire economics again. I suspect that at the end of the day statism is just too popular to be replaced. No government, be it democratic or dictatorial, can survive without bribing enough people to establish a base of support and laissez-faire is a principled stand that doesn't accomplish this.

It's a problem with Economics as Hystrionic Ideology. This is a diverse umbrella of various schools of thought which has come to suck much of the oxygen out of the conversation, because it gets a lot of funding by think tanks. This is because it is not about an actual grappling with economic and historical realities - rather, it serves as a smokescreen for lobbying for particular policy changes and then spinning up justifications post hoc. What they all have in common is a complete divorce from reality/hard examples and a fall-back on this special pleading of ‘real x has never been tried’. As if only their ideology can suspend the hard facts and exist as this gauzy, floating abstraction in a vacuum. But if an opposing ideology (like communism) tries to pull the exact same trick these people will lose their shit and rightly call it out.

Can you define,

Real Capitalism?

Real Communism?

I'd imagine 'both have been tried on the small level of a village.

But, when you start having ‘lots of people, suddenly the 'State pops up as a problem, maybe even pops up in the village.

Capitalism,

Yes, I only own my property,

But I have freely traded my gold to these mercenaries, and we now want to change the system, to you paying us more.

A Dialogue on Freedom - Existential Comics

Communism,

Yes, we all must contribute to the greater good,

The greater good of the Community demands that the old be left out to die.

Senicide - Wikipedia

I'm not sure humans tend to want ’pure political systems.

Well, ‘maybe they want ’some aspects of pure political systems, but there's likely consequences that they ‘don’t want.

Like coal, capitalism has brought many benefits. But, like coal, it now causes more harm than good. Just as we have found means of generating useful energy that are better and less damaging than coal, so we need to find means of generating human wellbeing that are better and less damaging than capitalism.

Government is only good at removing things, not creating. So ideally, government should remove harmful things of capitalism while leaving good. Its that simple. When government does something stupid like redistributing wealth on a mass scale, you just end up in a shithole country because the ones who used to create buisnesses no longer create them because government punishes them.

Ok. Hit us with your better idea then.

AI will hopefully be the ongoing solution to the Universes needs.

Though we will need to be around for a few years yet, to help AI to get established.

Yes, capitalism came before communism

. Capitalism emerged as a dominant economic system with the rise of market exchange and private property in Europe around the 14th to 19th centuries. Communism, as a modern ideology, was developed in the 19th century by thinkers like Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, who proposed it as a response to the inequalities they saw in capitalist societies. 

Yes, communism never came, only worse inequality and suffering.

Communism created two of the most powerful nations Russia and China.

Nope. Violent oppression created Russia and China. Nothing communistic about them at all.

Russia (as the Soviet Union) and China became communist states at different times, following different revolutionary paths

. Russia's communist government fell in 1991 with the dissolution of the Soviet Union, while China remains a one-party state ruled by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). 

Russia

The rise of communism in Russia began with the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917 under the leadership of Vladimir Lenin, which overthrew the existing government during World War I. This led to the establishment of the Soviet Union (USSR), the world's first self-declared socialist state. 

The Soviet Union's form of governance was a Marxist-Leninist dictatorship that used state control of the economy. The communist system eventually stagnated and collapsed, along with the Soviet Union itself, in 1991. Modern Russia is no longer a communist state; it transitioned to a market-based economy. 

China

In China, the Communist Party of China (CCP) was founded in 1921 with support from Soviet Russia. The CCP fought a prolonged civil war against the Nationalist Party (Kuomintang). The communists, under the leadership of Mao Zedong, focused their revolution on the rural peasantry, a different approach from the Soviet focus on urban workers. 

The People's Republic of China (PRC) was proclaimed by Mao Zedong on October 1, 1949, after the CCP won the Chinese Civil War and the Nationalists retreated to Taiwan. 

Since the late 1970s, China has implemented significant economic reforms, moving towards a "market socialism" system, or "socialism with Chinese characteristics," which incorporates elements of a market economy while maintaining strict one-party CCP rule. 

Deaths:

Lenin 4 million or so.

Mao Zedong 40 million plus.

Such was communism.

Showed how serious and committed they were. Today they are superpowers.

Laissez-faire Capitalism is the same as an unrestricted Democracy. It allows people to make decisions with no restrictions, which for many people, means the subsidizing of terrible habits.

modern America:

super fat, overstimulated, drowning in empty purchases, and stuck in a healthcare loop that treats problems just enough to keep the cycle going, devoid of any real purpose beyond dopamine once Maslow's pyramid becomes obsolete....

AI will change all that. People will make more reasonable demands on their government using AI.

Yes, committed to a non-communist system of oppression and obeyance.

Yes, countries typically identified as communist or having a communist political structure are actively investing in and developing Artificial Intelligence (AI)

. The most prominent example is China, which has declared its intention to become the world leader in AI by 2030. 

China's AI Strategy

China's approach to AI is centrally directed by the state and focuses on the application and adaptation of existing technologies to serve national objectives. 

1. Economic Goals: AI is being integrated into sectors like manufacturing and logistics to drive efficiency and maintain a competitive edge.
2. Social Control: The government uses AI-driven surveillance systems, such as facial recognition technology and the social credit system, for mass monitoring and to maintain social order and prevent dissent. State-developed large language models have even been trained on "Xi Jinping Thought" to indoctrinate users with Communist Party ideology.
3. Military Advancement: The People's Liberation Army is investing heavily in AI-driven autonomous systems, including drones and robotic platforms.
4. Global Influence: China exports its AI technologies, particularly surveillance systems, to other developing nations through initiatives like the Belt and Road Initiative, expanding its technological and governance influence globally. 

Leading Chinese tech firms and startups in the AI field include Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, SenseTime, and several new "AI Tigers" like Zhipu AI and Moonshot AI. 

Other Nations

Russia also views AI development as critical for national security and for reducing the capability gap with Western nations, primarily focusing on military applications and disinformation efforts. 

Other countries with officially communist governments, such as Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam, also have various levels of engagement with AI, though China and Russia are by far the most advanced and influential in this domain. 

The development of AI in these nations, particularly China, is a core dynamic shaping the global AI landscape and competition with the United States and other Western democracies.