Hypocrisy of due process application

Well, I think the common sense solution is just that humans often hold paradoxical views, values, virtues, vices.

“People find it hard to accept the idea that one man can be two things."

- Jack Rackham, Black Sails

. . .

Born or not, I imagine a fetus is still of one's own blood.

Course, an illegal immigrants fetus is not of one's own blood,

But then the fetus did not break the law.

Illegal immigrants who are children, kind of did not break the law as well I suppose.

Brought 'by their parents,

Or not tried as adults, as it goes.

But still, ICE gives them less rights than American Citizens I imagine.

. . .

Another view ICE supporters might hold is necessity and other side breaking rules first.

War as an example, one does not always have the facilities or enough soldiers to guard enemies who attempt to surrender.

. . . What options are had then,

Refusals to accept surrender, summery executions,

Refusals to accept surrender, refusal to give safety, forced back into arms of their own militaries, summery executions.

. . . German submarine, would like to give warnings or take prisoners, but the ships open fire or airplanes attack the ships attempting to tow people to safety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident

. . .

Google's AI summary now claims key parts of the 14th amendment (life, liberty, property) now only applies to citizens (in spite the literal words being "person")

What did you search to get that result? I got the opposite.

Paradoxically, the same people who support ICE, are usually the same people who oppose abortion often citing issues of due process (the right to life, liberty, property being inherent, rather than something special for citizens).

I haven't seen many people who oppose abortion do it on the basis of "issues of due process". Is this something you can link to or just something you heard people say in person? I have a hard time seeing someone who opposes abortion saying "as long as the fetus is given a trial, then abortion is fine." Especially since this only applies to the state depriving an individual of life and not a individual actor like a doctor.

I think the due process thing with immigrants is just a case of people not understanding the constitution very well. The people citing issues of due process to oppose abortion (if there are even that many of them) have at least read the constitution recently, so I don't think the groups have much overlap. They're both generally on the right, but they are probably different groups within the right.

I think it just comes from the realization that open borders policies harm the country and that murdering babies is unethical. So both are really about harm avoidance

Well, same old same old.

The U.S. is a Nation founded upon Immigrants.

Even the First Nations folk didn't originate on the land mass known as North America.

So any claim to rightful citizenship based simply upon a moment in time, is tenuous, and to preclude others for the same reason, is hypocritical.

They believe all fetuses have a right to life but not all fetuses have a right to due process, presumably.

I read somewhere that deportation was the due process?

On a second look, what's going on under the hood is extremely wild. Crossing your borders without checking in somewhere is technically a crime, but every single person that does this will never get charged for it because the due process for that would be a court trial.Instead they charge them with the civil offense of being in America much like overstaying a visa where they can legally deport to satisfy due process.

Strange laws.

We need more female sex workers coming into America on Einstein Visa's.

It's funny you should mention that, because I literally just typed in "does the 14th amendment due process clause apply to non-citizens" and the Google AI answered yes. AI gives notoriously unreliable answers that often read as brain farts - indeed, it doesn't have a brain at all and is incapable of thought, so the idea that it has a "position" on any one issue is silly.

But anyway, does due process exist? Yes, absolutely. However, it doesn't mean "the government can't do anything at all without winning a lawsuit first".

Punishing someone for a crime is one of those things, sure. Removing someone from land they're trespassing on is not. I think you would agree with me that if I waltzed into your back yard, set up a tent, and announced I was going to live there from now on, the cops could remove me without having to fight and win a 3-year court case first. To give me, say, 2 years in jail for trespassing is something a court would have to decide first, but just the removal of my dumbass from your back yard would be straightforward.

It goes without saying that illegal immigrants are trespassing in the United States. Birthright citizenship is a separate issue (though "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" creates some wiggle room), but also clearly non-applicable to people who were born in a foreign country to non-US citizen parents.

The abortion connection you cite is also rather nonsensical. Whether or not unborn humans are US citizens is irrelevant; pro-lifers aren't arguing for the right of fetuses to vote, drink, drive, marry, file lawsuits, etc. The right of human beings to not be murdered by other humans, and of humans below the age of majority to not be lethally neglected/abandoned by their caregiver, is universally accepted in every jurisdiction, regardless of citizenship. Indeed, the concept fundamentally predates modern notions of citizenship.

If you went and killed one of the several million people worldwide who are legally stateless, "he was stateless" wouldn't exactly be an airtight defense in court lol