How Conservatives through history fail to see trends and end up destroying their own empires.

Started by wylted

Replies
6
Posts
7
Page
1 / 1

Conversation

#1 •••

There are patterns in history but allow me to set the stage and if you are patient you will see how these ideals come together.


The Quiverfull Movement, and tech bros pro Natalism


The quiverfull movement was founded to combat the rise of socialism and posoinous leftwing beliefs by out reproducing them. This movement could accidentally help the crisis we face (as you will soon see) but you will notice that Elon Musk, Peter Theil and others within the paypal mafia and hanger ons push a pro-natalist stance while global population rises. The populations of Western Societies and a few other successful societies such as Japan continue to decline. There is an inner tension in Musk though where he sees that Western society is suffering a demographic collapse, and he thinks more babies are the solution but he also supports immigration to a large extent.\, since it aligns with his business interests. Both things seek to address the same issue, collapsing western birth rates.


My Own Musings


There are different kinds of liberals. They do seem to have a smaller umbrella for their party than conservatives but there is ideological variety and the technocrats on the left see the demographic collapse and are dishonest with their voters. Thank God for their dishonesty by the way, because if the technocrats were honest than they would likely be able to shave off a lot of higher IQ conservatives for their party. The truth they hide is that without a large influx of immigrants the economy collapses, and as we go on I will explain why this happens and Trump's plan.


Trump's Big Risk to save the West


Trump and/or his team are aware of this demographic collapse as well. The plan right now to deport illegal immigrants in large numbers in the short term will help citizens with getting blue collar jobs and it will help bring down housing costs. The tarrifs and most economists will admit this if pressured will help in the short term increase good paying jobs and help the economy. Economists are split over this short term gain is good for the long term, most think it has a real rebound effect more long term and if the economy long term depends on immigrants, even illegal ones than we also have the other problem.


My belief is that Trump and his tech bro supporters are working hard to bring in a lot of AI and robotics technologies to make up for the loss of immigrants and counter a worker shortage. What's the cause of the reliance on immigrants? Why is Musk wrong that having more babies is the answer? Will our robot overlords save us? What does any of this have to do with conservatives struggling with pattern recognition?


How Empires fall


We are going to skip why empires rise, because it's irrelevant to this discussion but a pattern in empires emerges that makes some things very predictable. What happens is that as a country succeeds it's people become well off. They become spoiled. You get used to working relatively easy jobs like server and desk jockey (comparatively easy anyway) . The children of successful people (which is most of us even if we grew up in poverty in America) aren't used to getting their hands dirty. If you go to poor regions of the world you can see nasty stuff in diamond mines or kids who work for the drug cartels doing nasty things and this sort of work is just not something the western mind can imagine themselves doing. Most of us would starve first.


Most of you may argue we don't have those jobs in america like cartel member or diamond mind. You'd be wrong and most of us just aren't going to go to the mountains of North Carolina. to a sparsely populated area and get a job at Tyson Chicken. A job that may require you hold chickens down and slice their throats or where their throats get sliced. A job that is in high demand because of how much chicken black people eat. You have similar jobs for Pig slaughtering and cows and probably a dozen other things and other industries which are just as hard for a soft Westerner to do.


All empires are like this. In the Roman empire the slaves (immigrants) began to outnumber the native population. Revolts happened, the middle class people there began seeing their own wealth disappear and they struggled due to the immigrant slaves as well. Now instead of going to a farmers market the wealthy could have their slaves garden. During economic hardship, which are inevitable even in the most healthy societies, you will get this animosity towards the slave class and the wealthy elite by the normal everyday folks.


When this occurs usually the people seek a strong man type. A person like a Julius Caesar and this Caeser in cahoots with the "counter elite" who represent a group that is influential but locked out of power, together overthrow the existing order. After which power is consolidated and you see the country becoming stable and a decent period of stability. After this period of stability and prosperity, maybe lasting 20 years, maybe 50 we then see the beginning of a collapse due to family succession of power and an incompetent ruling class.


Conclusion


So I am not sure if Trump is a type of false start or the Caeser figure that arises during these times as a natural progression of things but conservatives don't seem to have a plan for what happens after consolidation of power to stop the collapse that usually comes. I suggest we look to civilizations that were stable for long periods. Those civilizations were usually ruled by monarchs who had checks and balances on them by an educated elite largely immune to the whims of the public who are generally retarded.


I guess what I am trying to say is that if we want to leave our children and grand children with a great country than we need to seriously consider making Baron Trump the king of America.

Edit comment

#2 •••
@wylted
Those civilizations were usually ruled by monarchs who had checks and balances on them by an educated elite largely immune to the whims of the public who are generally retarded.


North Korea outlasted USSR. There is something about monarchy and dictator rule of council which provides stability which democracy or ordinary dictatorship cannot ever have. Monarch has to be really smart to stay in power, and then pass knowledge to his son.


President doesnt need to be smart or capable, only popular.

Edit post

#3 •••

It's an interesting post, though I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion.

Regardless of the conclusion though, I don't think I'd really 'want to follow someone else as King, regardless of better quality of life.

. . .

I'd imagine there are different kinds of monarchies.

. . .

I don't think America would accept Baron Trump as King, 'maybe President for a time, some years from now.

. . .

Rich people, companies, and CEOs are kind of like Kings, I suppose, but 'kind 'of is the word.


"They justified the imposition of controls on the grounds that they would thus wrest profits from wealthy private merchants that could pose a threat to the state and bring them into state coffers; particularly, modernists claimed that salt and iron industrialists were "brutal and tyrannical," who employed thousands of workers that could potentially become rebels."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourses_on_Salt_and_Iron

. . .


Black Mage: How, in the ten thousand hells of the Great Lord Chaos, did a man of your grotesque stupidity become the leader of the most powerful nation in the world?

King Steve: Well, my dad was king, so now I'm king. But now that I think about it, genetics is not a very good system of determining executive power. Even the most capable and caring and beloved leader - much less my greedy, thieving dad - can have an incompetent son so mindbogglingly stupid that he could singlehandedly flush the world's greatest nation down the sewer before the populace at large has a chance to notice - which is exactly what the Cornerian press used to say about me before I decreed that it was the civic duty of the press to never ever question my rule which I then also decreed to be absolute and perfect. So now even thinking that I'm not a perfect benevolent leader is a crime. So now I can do crazy stuff like drill for mana in Endangered Species Forest. Weeee!

Red Mage: You don't actually drill for mana.

King Steve: We do now!

https://www.nuklearpower.com/2002/06/19/episode-163-king-steve-is-stupid

Edit post

#4 •••
@Leaning

I wonder though. The king does get some say in his heir. If a person is raised from birth to a rule a nation, I imagine that education would focus heavily on geoplitics, philosophy and systems thinking. That person has to be better at governing than some random lawyer or business man who just got a hankering for politics at 60 years old, even if the lawyer has am IQ of 140 and they are a measly 120. Also ideally you have the king have full faith in God and so he submits his will to what he perceives God's will to be. It holds him morally accountable, even if only in his own head.


So we have a person that was raised to rule whose actions are tempered by trying to please God and ignore his worst instincts


vs


A random lawyer who shifts his career into politics who proposes great ideals that all but disappear when he has to negotiate the policy to make it pass and who has very little training in philosophy, economics, geopolitics, system thinking etc.

Edit post

#5 •••
@Leaning

There is a reason why democracy never existed in history except in small part of ancient Greece which was even inferior to Sparta. It actually took entire Rome plus other parts of Greece to defeat Sparta, which is insane considering the size difference. So I would say Sparta two kings system is perfect, as well as any system which is based on a rule of group of dictators.

Edit post

#6 •••
@wylted, @SatanLucy

@wylted

I have heard some argue a theory before, that Rome was run better when it's Empower was chosen by merit, rather than blood.

I don't know how 'true that is though.

. . .


'If a well trained hereditary heir survives, I imagine it 'could work pretty well.

Not 'so well if they die though, maybe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafes


Sometimes Civil Wars have erupted by multiple heirs,

But I'm not well read on the subject.


@SatanLucy

Sounds a fair point to me, but I'm poorly read on Political History and Theory.


I'm uncertain about how few Democracies there were in history.

Problems of definitions and degrees pop their heads for me.


"In Spartan government, the political power was divided between four bodies: two Spartan kings (diarchy), gerousia (Council of Gerontes (elders), including the two kings), the ephors (representatives of the citizens who oversaw the kings), and the ecclesia (assembly of Spartans)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_democracy


If a King is elected Democratically by the people, (I'm not saying Spartan Kings were)

Whether the King can be removed or whether it is (My master, Right or wrong, sane or not)

Checks on the King's power.

Edit post

#7 •••
@Leaning
Problems of definitions and degrees pop their heads for me.


In Sparta, there was no dictatorship, but was simply a rule of group, not majority rule. Majority of people were slaves, no voting rights. Large minority were warrior class who had privileges. They had their representatives, and representatives were basically able to veto kings, which was actually a huge disadvantage for Sparta where at some points in history, kings were prevented from making rational decisions. So it was dictatorship of a group, basically. There was truly no majority vote in whole society, just in specific ruling group. The today's version of Sparta is North Korea, with basically copy pasted political system with difference being lack of diarchy. North Korea has dictator, but also has ruling party. And has privileged warrior class. The ordinary citizens who vote literally decide nothing, not even on elections. Elections are "formal". Its impossible for ruling party to lose on them, when citizens arent even aware of other political parties because other political parties are literally banned from suggesting their candidates. There are elections, but there is no candidate running against Kim Jong Un 🤷‍♀️

Edit post