Attack on Iran - A very very stupid mistake

Started by SatanLucy

Replies
67
Posts
68
Page
1 / 3

Conversation

#1 •••

Just when trump bragged to be a peacemaker and making peace, he happened to just start a war greater than any war fought in this century.


the problem with attacking Iran comes in 4 forms:


One, Iran is huge. Iran has a population of 90 million people, which is a lot more than Israel and Ukraine. this means Iran has basically huge recruitment potential, huge conscription possible.


two, Iran has ability to fight back, with many drones and countless missiles in storage.


tree, Iran will fight back, because at this point it became obvious its "do or die" situation.


Four, Israel will be primary target. the most obvious target Iran could attack is Israel, and by far much easier target than US bases because US bases can be missed easily, Israel is difficult to miss.




Iran's armed forces are among the largest in the Middle East, with

approximately 610,000 active-duty personnel and 350,000 reserves, totaling nearly 1 million personnel. The military consists of the regular army (Artesh), the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), and the Basij paramilitary force. Key capabilities include a large arsenal of missiles, drones, and, crucially, significant regional proxy forces. 


Key Military Personnel and Structure (Approximate):


  1. Total Active Duty: $\sim$610,000
  2. Total Reserve: $\sim$350,000
  3. IRGC Strength: $\sim$190,000-200,000+ active personnel
  4. Basij Paramilitary: Significant mobilization capability (often cited alongside IRGC, totalling >1,000,000 combined with IRGC)
  5. Army (Artesh) Ground Forces: $\sim$300,000
  6. Naval Forces: $\sim$20,000+
  7. Air Force: $\sim$37,000 

Key Capabilities and Equipment:


  1. Missiles/Drones: Large stockpile of ballistic and cruise missiles, including hypersonic missiles, and extensive UAV (drone) capabilities.
  2. Ground Forces: Approx. 2,675 tanks and 1,550 mobile rocket launchers, providing, according to The Times of India, a numerical advantage in the region.
  3. Structure: The military is split between the conventional Artesh and the ideologically driven IRGC, with both under a unified command structure.
  4. Strategy: Heavy focus on asymmetrical warfare, regional proxies, and defensive depth.




As of early 2026, Iran is estimated to possess a massive stockpile of

up to 80,000 Shahed-series drones, with production rates potentially reaching 400 units per day.



Iran's ballistic missile arsenal is estimated to include over 3,000 missiles. This large inventory comprises a diverse array of short-range ballistic missiles (SRBMs), with a range of 300–1000 km, and medium-range ballistic missiles (MRBMs) with a range of 1000–3000 km



Now, assuming Iran doesnt do a mistake of "splitting power", and instead focuses all this destructive power on Israel, Israel would suffer massive damage.

Edit comment

#2 •••

Is an Attack on Iran a Strategic Mistake?

Whether military action against Iran constitutes a strategic mistake depends on five core variables:

  1. Clarity and realism of objectives
  2. Feasibility and proportionality of military means
  3. Escalation control capacity
  4. Legal and diplomatic legitimacy
  5. Long-term second- and third-order consequences

History suggests tactical success does not automatically translate into strategic success.

Executive Summary

Short-term:

Precision strikes could degrade nuclear infrastructure, missile production, air defenses, and command networks.

Medium- to long-term:

Escalation dynamics, nuclear acceleration incentives, regime consolidation, regional destabilization, energy shocks, and absence of a credible political end state make large-scale or open-ended military action strategically hazardous.

The core issue is not whether damage can be inflicted.

It is whether durable strategic gains can be secured.

Why Some Argue It Is Not a Mistake

Supporters of military action usually define objectives narrowly.

1. Delaying Nuclear Advancement

Key facilities such as the Natanz Nuclear Facility, Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant, and Isfahan Nuclear Technology Center are known components of Iran’s nuclear infrastructure.

Airstrikes could:

  1. Damage centrifuge cascades
  2. Destroy enrichment halls
  3. Disrupt uranium conversion lines
  4. Set back missile delivery systems

If the objective is delay, not dismantlement, military strikes may achieve measurable short-term disruption.

But delay is reversible.

2. Reasserting Deterrence

Supporters argue that visible use of force:

  1. Reinforces red lines
  2. Signals resolve
  3. Restores credibility

Strikes targeting assets linked to the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps could temporarily degrade proxy coordination and missile capabilities.

In classical deterrence theory, credible punishment can discourage future aggression.

However, deterrence can also fail if the opponent adapts or escalates.

3. Reassuring Allies

Israel and several Gulf states view Iranian missile expansion and proxy networks as persistent threats. Limited strikes may reassure regional partners and strengthen security coordination.

Why Many Analysts Consider It a Strategic Mistake

The strongest arguments focus not on immediate battlefield outcomes—but on structural consequences.

1. Escalation Is Difficult to Control

Once kinetic exchange begins, escalation ladders narrow.

Possible retaliation pathways include:

  1. Ballistic missile salvos
  2. Drone swarms
  3. Proxy activation in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, or Yemen
  4. Maritime disruption in the Strait of Hormuz
  5. Cyberattacks on infrastructure

The Strait of Hormuz handles roughly one-fifth of globally traded oil. Even temporary disruption can trigger major price spikes, inflationary pressure, and global market volatility.

Escalation often becomes politically harder to reverse after civilian casualties or symbolic losses.

2. The Nuclear Acceleration Paradox

A strike intended to prevent nuclear acquisition may increase Iran’s incentive to obtain a nuclear deterrent.

If leadership concludes that:

  1. Regime survival is threatened
  2. Diplomacy is unreliable
  3. External guarantees are insufficient

Then nuclear weaponization becomes strategically rational as a survival tool.

This risks:

  1. Reduced cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency
  2. Potential withdrawal from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
  3. Accelerated breakout capability

Historically, states under military threat often deepen deterrent programs rather than abandon them.

3. Regime Consolidation and Hardliner Empowerment

External attacks typically produce a “rally-around-the-flag” effect:

  1. Reformist factions marginalized
  2. Security institutions empowered
  3. Expanded domestic repression justified
  4. Political power centralized

Rather than weakening the regime, external military pressure may entrench it.

4. Limits of Airpower

Airstrikes can:

✔ Destroy infrastructure

✔ Kill personnel

✔ Degrade logistics

They cannot:

✖ Erase scientific expertise

✖ Eliminate dispersed nuclear stockpiles

✖ Guarantee long-term behavioral change

✖ Secure permanent dismantlement without occupation

Airpower rarely produces durable political transformation absent a viable post-conflict settlement.

5. Energy and Global Economic Shock

Even without full closure of Hormuz:

  1. Shipping insurance premiums rise
  2. Oil futures spike
  3. LNG markets tighten
  4. Emerging economies absorb disproportionate inflation

Energy shocks have global consequences far beyond the immediate battlefield.

6. Great Power Alignment Effects

Military escalation involving Iran risks:

  1. Drawing the United States deeper into regional conflict
  2. Increasing Russian and Chinese diplomatic or material support for Tehran
  3. Widening global bloc polarization

Instead of isolating Iran, conflict may harden geopolitical alignments.

7. Erosion of Nonproliferation Norms

If preventive strikes become normalized, other states may conclude:

  1. Nuclear capability is the only reliable deterrent
  2. International agreements offer limited protection

This could weaken global nonproliferation architecture beyond Iran itself.

The Core Strategic Problem: No Credible End State

The decisive question:

What political outcome is realistically achievable?
Objective - Likelihood of Durable Success
Temporary delayHigh
Permanent dismantlementLow
Regime collapseExtremely low
Long-term regional stabilityHistorically elusive

Military superiority does not equal strategic closure.

Without:

  1. A negotiated framework
  2. Verification mechanisms
  3. Regional security guarantees
  4. Sanctions relief pathways

Conflict risks becoming cyclical.

The Security Dilemma Spiral

Each side views defensive actions as offensive threats:

  1. Iran expands missile capability → Israel perceives existential risk
  2. Israel strikes infrastructure → Iran accelerates deterrence
  3. U.S. involvement → Iran shifts doctrine toward survival escalation

Even rational actors can become trapped in a feedback loop of mutual insecurity.

Big-Picture Strategic Assessment

An attack on Iran is likely a strategic mistake if the objective includes:

  1. Long-term regional stabilization
  2. Sustainable nuclear rollback
  3. Coercive regime transformation
  4. Durable deterrence without diplomacy

It may not be a mistake if:

  1. Strictly limited
  2. Clearly defined
  3. Time-bound
  4. Coupled immediately with diplomatic off-ramps

However, history shows escalation discipline is extraordinarily difficult once military operations begin.

Final Synthesis

High short-term tactical impact

High probability of escalation and economic disruption

Limited and reversible long-term gains

Persistent absence of political resolution

The primary danger is not the opening strike.

It is the strategic chain reaction that may follow—one that reshapes regional security, accelerates nuclear incentives, destabilizes energy markets, and entrenches rather than resolves the underlying conflict.



Escalation Is Highly Likely

Iran has already launched retaliatory strikes against Israel and U.S. bases.

This creates an escalation ladder:

Strike → retaliation → counterstrike → widening war

Once kinetic exchange begins, political leaders often lose room for de-escalation without appearing weak.


Edit post

#3 •••

Id say taking out their nuke capability is fair as is their leader. Its do or die for everyone else too who dont want to be subject to the whims of an evil religion. Iran doesnt have to fight back as itd be a suicide mission if they did.


Seeking overall regime change isnt exactly a good idea though. The strong consensus of military leaders is that that'd be too difficult

Edit post

#4 •••

Iranian state media is claiming that dozens of elementary school students were killed in a strike that hit a girls’ school in southern Iran on Saturday.


At least 57 students were killed with dozens of others buried under rubble, the Mehr news outlet reported. The county governor of Minab, Hormozgan, where the purported strike took place, had said earlier that 24 students were killed.

CNN is unable to independently verify the reports and has reached out to the US and Israeli militaries for comment. The Pentagon said it had nothing to share at this time.


“The US & Israel launched an egregious, unwarranted act of aggression against Iran by indiscriminately targeting Iranian cities,” said Foreign Ministry spokesman Esmael Baqaie, who claimed that “tens of innocent young girls” had been killed and maimed at the school in Minab.

Another Iranian news agency posted video purporting to show extensive damage to the school, with smoke rising from the building, as well as cranes lifting debris.


Saturday is the first day of the school week in Iran.

Two high-school students were killed in a separate missile attack in Tehran, according to Iranian media outlets.


Edit post

#5 •••
@linate
Id say taking out their nuke capability is fair


Bombing elementary schools doesnt achieve that objective, and now Iran is even more motivated to get nukes.

Edit post

#6 •••
@linate
Iran doesnt have to fight back as itd be a suicide mission if they did.


Iran is already fighting back, and now the question is how much will war expand before its "fight and perish or dont fight but perish anyway" for Iran, and at that point, Iran will use everything it has.

Edit post

#7 •••
@SatanLucy

All Iran has to do is stop enriching uranium to the point to could quickly create nukes and allow full access to USA inspectors. Iran doesntbl have to perish either way like you say.... the real choice is either comply or they'll get their shit fucked up. Its not even comply or perish but if it was, they should comply. The only reason they won't comply is because theyre an evil country with evil intentions

Edit post

#8 •••
@linate
All Iran has to do is stop enriching uranium to the point to could quickly create nukes and allow full access to USA inspectors. Iran doesntbl have to perish either way like you say


By that logic, Venezuelan government would never perish.


Because you are running under clearly false assumption that USA merely wants to destroy nuclear abilities, and not entire regime.


However, in this case, Iran has every incentive to drag USA into a war, because it helps unite people in Iran.


And if USA seeks regime change, which it says it does, then "its resist or perish", and for Iran, resisting carries more benefits because everyone knows USA cant actually achieve military victory in Iran or destroy Iran's government.

Edit post

#9 •••
@SatanLucy

Well if trump does seek regime change its only because the regime refuses to be rational and submit to a system tjat requires no hint of nukes. If a regime says they want nukes no matter what with the genocidal tendencies of Iran then why not try to stop them? Even if they achieve no regime change they gone get their shit so fucked up either way such that they'll be set back all the more

Edit post

#10 •••
@linate

It was Trump that tore up the nuclear deal Iran signed with Obama which they were fully compliant with. So Trump bears full responsibility for Irans ability to reconstitute a nuclear program.

Edit post

#11 •••
@linate
why not try to stop them?


As explained by my smart AI, delaying isnt stopping. And delaying does come at price when Iran fights back, which happens now, forcing USA and allies to either sit and take punches, or to engage in larger war which then causes more damage to USA because USA cant win in a larger war.


Its a lose lose scenario because Iran isnt Venezuela. Iran's military size is one of biggest in the world. And Iran even has a lot of allies.


Even limited attacks on Iran come with price, because Iran will always retaliate more and more to deter future attacks.

Edit post

#12 •••
@SatanLucy

It will cost Trump his NobelPeace prize. And also dismantle his Board of Peace.

Edit post

#13 •••
@SatanLucy

So your bottom line is that its acceptable for Iran to have nukes? If not, then how would you prevent that if not by force?

Edit post

#14 •••
@linate

NKorea has nukes and remains a peaceful Trump ally.

Edit post

#15 •••
@Debby

Iran was only contained by inspectors for ten years with that deal. Theres no reason they shouldn't allow insoectirs, period. Them saying its about sovereignty is a smoke screen. They've promised to wipe Israel off the map and they are religious nuts so they'd do it. Why allow them to get super strong eciniminlcallly by keeping the nuke deal? Obamas flaw wa a thinking everyone is rational or can be reasoned with for desired outcome.


So your bottom line is that its acceptable for Iran to have nukes? If not, then how would you prevent that if not by force?

Edit post

#16 •••
@Debby

North Korea isnt a religious nut nor do they want a suicide mission by being provocative or aggressive. You can be sure if north Korea had the means, they'd be way more aggressive.


The world is a fucked up place, sometimes force is nevessary

Edit post

#17 •••
@linate
So your bottom line is that its acceptable for Iran to have nukes? If not, then how would you prevent that if not by force?


the world is more complicated than "acceptable or fight".


I can find some things unacceptable, yet trying to fight them is bad as well.


Lets take example of North Korea, who many times promised to destroy both USA and South Korea, and even Japan. In year 2003, around Iraqi war, Iraq was previously attacked for "weapons of mass destruction.


But then logically, in 2003, it would make sense for USA to attack North Korea for very same reason. And if USA attacked North Korea in 2003, today's nuclear North Korea wouldnt exist.


But the question isnt merely about preventing countries from going nuclear. Its also about "how do we prevent it while not causing too much harm"?


Because, yes, you can launch wide scale invasion on Iran. But the consequences of that decision could easily lead to stronger, not weaker, Iran.


Right now, Iran has all the tools necessary for mass mobilization of military, and is more prepared to fight a war than US and Israel are.


Because now, propaganda is on Iran's side, and this enables easy conscription.


And with 90 million population, conscription of merely 10% of population is 9 million soldiers.


Can USA fight against 9 million soldiers, plus 1 million professional soldiers in Iran's regular army? No. Its a war USA cannot possibly win, yet will be dragged into it because counter strikes result in more counter strikes.


And Iran isnt going to merely let USA destroy its nuclear power every time they build it. Iran will learn new ways, go deep underground with nuclear power, and at that point, only a ground invasion works to prevent it, which is very bad for USA.


So yes, I am afraid mere military force isnt a solution at all in this case, because winner overconfidence in Venezuela seems to not work at all on Iran.


You can bully small countries. But bullying a country that can seriously hurt you and that you cant even secure military victory against, isnt good strategy at all.


Because again, if your whole plan is "target destruction of Iran's nuclear sites each time Iran builds them", such strategy has a very quick expiration date, as shown that even previous attacks didnt actually destroy Iran's ability in nuclear energy entirely.


Because your entire plan is "keep destroying it" while their plan is not only "keep building it", but "keep building better, more resistant...ect".

Edit post

#18 •••
@SatanLucy

America uses more AI than Iran. So somewhere there has to be a winning strategy for America.

Edit post

#19 •••
@SatanLucy

I asked you what your alternative strategy was to stop Iran from getting a nuke and you didn't answer. You mostly just criticized my approach and then stated theres was to stop them that diesnt involve invasion or regime change attempts but you didn't describe how you'd effectively do that


Its easy to criticize its tough to come up with solutions. So either put up or shut up

Edit post

#20 •••
@linate

Solution is, as stated before, to improve relations between countries.


Instead of attacking Iran and forcing it to defend itself by building nukes, create new relationship where countries dont need nukes to defend from you.

Edit post

#21 •••

Thats super naive and appears ignorant. Iran keeps putting their reactors at near weopons grade. They refuse to allow unfettered inspectors. The bottom line of Iran is they want a nuke and they are making it obvious. The usa isnt stopping them from peaceful use of nuclear energy or bullying them. How am I wrong? Sometimes bad people have bad intentions and can't be reasoned with. Sometimes force is necessary... to say otherwise is truly idiotic

Edit post

#22 •••
@SatanLucy

^&^^

Edit post

#23 •••
@linate

Trump has attacked Iran. What Iran has been hiding will soon come out. This is war.

Edit post

#24 •••
@SatanLucy

The Supreme Leader of Iran is reported to have been killed. Iran is fucked.

Edit post

#25 •••
@Shoresy

Wikipedia says he was/is 86 years old.

I suppose he could/have lived for another 40 years or so. Though it doesn't seem likely.


I'd figure the factions of government of Iran already have plans in place for succession.

Edit post

#26 •••
@Leaning

I spose a missle is a quick way to go.

Edit post

#27 •••
@Shoresy
The Supreme Leader of Iran is reported to have been killed. Iran is fucked.


Escalation predicted in post 2, escalation happened.

Edit post

#28 •••
@SatanLucy

(Shrug)

If Iran was 'really dangerous, they would have helped out their proxies more against Israel.


Iran ally Russia is distracted by Ukraine, Iran also did no help Syria, I think.


Israel and America able to exert more air power in region 'currently with Syria way that it is.


If America is careful, we might get lucky with Iran, same we did with Venezuela.


Trump projection of military power, 'might dissuade China from Taiwan.

And China may just figure, wait for a Democrat to be in power.


Iran has 'already long been a thorn in the side of Israel and America. Maybe.


I don't think Iran was 'really cooperating with the Obama nuke deal.


Other countries may not mind America's actions, due to Iran support of Houthi's, 'another example of Iran proxies.

. . .


I don't really know much about Iran.

I don't know 'what America should do, but I don't consider this a 'high 'risk for America.


Even Iraq wasn't 'risky for America, just a bit of a waste of time, 'maybe.


. . . I sometimes think Nations militaries stay strong by conflict and deployment.


I even had a halfway joking debate about such.

https://www.debateart.com/debates/6350-constant-partial-war

Edit post

#29 •••
@Leaning

This will definitely set back their plans to detonate a nuclear bomb.

Edit post

#30 •••
@Leaning
I don't consider this a 'high 'risk for America.


It is higher risk than Iraq, because they just entered total war mode, and you can expect price of oil to suddenly be much higher unless oil from Venezuela makes up for it. Iraq was actually much smaller than Iran. thats the problem. USA couldnt chew up Iraq properly. Why anyone thinks war with Iran is a great idea is beyond me. Its like saying "I cant lift 50 kilograms, so I will try lifting 150."

Edit post