The government should give tax credits to alternative energy

Started by linate

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#1 •••

The government should give tax credits to alternative energy. Except, they shouldnt give them just for certain technologies like electric cars. Conservatives are right about that, they shoukdnt be picking winners and losers. If the government picked wrong they be subsidizing an inferior technology. But conservstives are wrong that the government shouldnt have a hand in transitioning. Fir one we know that alternative energy is cheaper, so its all around a win win for everyone. Fir two if we wait until the rich start transituoning it might be too late. By the time they start feeling the pinch of prices, evrryone else will feel it even more, the whole time we could have been transitioning everyone else will be feeling pinched

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#2 •••

Plus the global warming thing too. We should speed the process up

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#3 •••

Your framework is close to what many economists would call a **technology-neutral industrial policy** rather than a command-and-control energy policy. The core idea is:


* Government *does* intervene to accelerate the transition.

* But it intervenes by rewarding outcomes rather than prescribing one specific technology.


That avoids some of the strongest criticisms from both sides.


A coherent version of your argument could look something like this:


> Government should help accelerate the transition away from expensive and environmentally harmful energy sources, but it should avoid narrowly favoring one technology such as electric cars alone. Instead, incentives should be based on measurable outcomes like reduced emissions, higher efficiency, lower pollution, or reduced fossil fuel dependence. This allows markets and innovators to compete to discover the best solutions while still recognizing that society benefits from transitioning faster than the market might do on its own.


Your reasoning has several layers behind it.


### 1. The “don’t pick winners and losers” critique has some merit


You are recognizing a legitimate conservative concern:


* Governments can misjudge technologies.

* Politicians are not always good venture capitalists.

* Subsidizing the wrong thing can lock in inferior systems.


Historically, this has happened before:


* Some biofuel policies distorted food markets.

* Certain solar firms failed after receiving subsidies.

* Different battery chemistries rose and fell unpredictably.


So there is a real argument for:


* broad tax credits,

* carbon pricing,

* emissions targets,

* efficiency standards,


instead of:


* “EVs good, everything else bad.”


For example, a neutral system might reward:


* EVs,

* hydrogen,

* synthetic fuels,

* advanced nuclear,

* geothermal,

* carbon capture,

* high-efficiency public transit,

* or technologies not yet invented—


as long as they meet performance goals.


That preserves innovation competition.


### 2. Markets alone may transition too slowly


This is where your argument departs from laissez-faire conservatism.


You are basically describing a **collective action problem** and a **timing problem**.


Markets respond strongly to:


* present prices,

* short-term incentives,

* immediate profitability.


But energy infrastructure changes slowly:


* factories,

* power grids,

* pipelines,

* vehicle fleets,

* housing stock—


all take decades to replace.


So if society waits until fossil fuel scarcity, geopolitical instability, or climate damage becomes economically overwhelming, then:


* energy prices spike,

* poorer households get hit hardest,

* industries scramble chaotically,

* and transition costs become more painful.


You are arguing that gradual acceleration now may reduce larger pain later.


That is a pragmatic argument, not just an environmental one.


### 3. You are also pointing to unequal economic resilience


This is an important observation:


> Wealthier people can absorb rising energy costs longer than poorer people can.


So if transition only happens when markets finally force it:


* affluent households adapt first,

* lower-income people suffer longer from:


* fuel costs,

* heating costs,

* pollution,

* climate instability,

* insurance increases,

* infrastructure damage.


In economic terms, you are arguing the market signal arrives “too late” for vulnerable populations.


### 4. The strongest version of your argument is probably not “alternative energy is always cheaper”


That point is partly true but needs nuance.


Some renewable energy sources are now extraordinarily cheap:


* utility solar,

* onshore wind,

* some battery storage.


But:


* intermittency,

* transmission,

* storage,

* mineral supply chains,

* industrial heat,

* aviation,

* grid stability—


still create real costs and engineering challenges.


A stronger formulation is:


> Many alternative energy technologies are already becoming cost-competitive or cheaper in major sectors, and strategic public policy can accelerate economies of scale, infrastructure buildout, and innovation while reducing long-term transition costs.


That version is harder to attack because it avoids oversimplifying.


### 5. Your overall position is actually fairly centrist economically


You are combining:


* market competition,

* innovation incentives,

* skepticism of central planning,

* recognition of externalities,

* long-term planning,

* and social stability concerns.


That lands somewhere between:


* pure laissez-faire conservatism,

* and heavy-handed industrial planning.


Economists across ideological lines often support versions of this through:


* carbon taxes,

* technology-neutral clean energy credits,

* R&D subsidies,

* infrastructure investment,

* or pollution pricing.


Your emphasis on:


> “reward outcomes, not specific technologies”


is probably the key principle tying your position together.


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#4 •••

And one of the key points isnt that it'll take too long for the rich to feel the pinch... its actually also less efficient that way, waiting for them. The market isnt always more efficient

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#5 •••
@linate
one we know that alternative energy is cheaper


Not really. If it was cheaper, people would already be using it and you wouldn't need "rewards" to make people use it.

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#6 •••
@linate

Why do you want a fascist government in charge of the private energy industry?


But conservatives are wrong that the government shouldn't have a hand in transitioning. 


So they aren't really fascists? And on top of that, they are wrong for not being fascists?

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#7 •••
@Shoresy

Have you ever looked up the definition of the word fascist? It means right wing authoritarians using force to enforce undemocratic decrees. It looks like you keep using the word wrong

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#8 •••
@linate
It means right wing authoritarians using force to enforce undemocratic decrees.

So what? That just means your country is all right-wing for using the government to manipulate the privately owned economy. Even your Democrat party is right-wing now. There are no "liberals" in the USA anymore, the ones who promote freedom from state control.


By classical liberal standards, both parties support a lot of state intervention in the economy.

Unrefutable. Liberalism died long ago, and it was the Democrats who killed it. Right around the time of the rise of global fascism.


Political labels are like hookers; they are cheap and predictable. But authoritarianism has no need of any special label.


You manipulate privately owned businesses; you got that from Mussolini.

https://politicalresearch.org/2005/01/12/mussolini-corporate-state


Here are some typical Mussolini quotes from original documents:

The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State–a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values–interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people. (p. 14)
Fascism recognises the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade-unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which diverent interests are coordinated and harmonised in the unity of the State. (p.15)
Yet if anyone cares to read over the now crumbling minutes giving an account of the meetings at which the Italian Fasci di Combattimento were founded, he will find not a doctrine but a series of pointers… (p. 23)
“It may be objected that this program implies a return to the guilds (corporazioni). No matter!… I therefore hope this assembly will accept the economic claims advanced by national syndicalism.” (p. 24)
Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and economic sphere. (p. 32)
The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporate, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation, organised in their respective associations, circulate within the State. (p. 41).
Benito Mussolini, 1935, The Doctrine of Fascism, Firenze: Vallecchi Editore.
The Labour Charter (Promulgated by the Grand Council ofr Fascism on April 21, 1927)—(published in the Gazzetta Ufficiale, April 3, 1927) [sic] (p. 133)
The Corporate State and its Organization (p. 133)
The corporate State considers that private enterprise in the sphere of production is the most effective and usefu [sic] [typo-should be: useful] instrument in the interest of the nation. In view of the fact that private organisation of production is a function of national concern, the organiser of the enterprise is responsible to the State for the direction given to production.
State intervention in economic production arises only when private initiative is lacking or insufficient, or when the political interests of the State are involved. This intervention may take the form of control, assistance or direct management. (pp. 135-136)
Benito Mussolini, 1935, Fascism: Doctrine and Institutions, Rome: ‘Ardita’ Publishers.


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#9 •••
@linate

#7


Yes, you just described the current US government.

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