Confession to priests are sources of forgiveness but not necessarily required | Forum

#1

# Confession, priestly absolution, the apostolic and institutional Churches, and the Freedom of God’s Mercy

Confession to a priest is one of the great spiritual gifts of Christianity. It provides accountability, humility, spiritual guidance, and the healing that comes from bringing hidden sins into the light. The Church has long understood the priest as a spiritual physician who helps restore the soul, not merely as a judge declaring guilt or innocence.

However, recognizing the value of priestly confession does not necessarily require believing that it is the only possible means by which God forgives sins. Scripture repeatedly presents God Himself as the source of forgiveness. The repentant sinner cries out directly to God, and Christ Himself forgives people who come to Him in faith and humility. The parable of the prodigal son shows a Father who runs to meet the repentant child before any formal process takes place.

At the same time, Christ did give His apostles authority connected with forgiveness: “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven” (John 20:23). This supports the Christian tradition that the Church has a real ministry of reconciliation. Confession is not merely a human invention; it is a meaningful way God works through His Church.

The question is whether this ministry was intended to be the exclusive and absolutely required method of receiving forgiveness. Historical development raises important questions. The formal structure of sacramental confession developed gradually over the centuries, moving from early Christian practices of repentance and reconciliation into the more defined practice of private confession to a priest. If the institution developed over time, it suggests that the practice may be a profound expression of Christian wisdom rather than the only possible channel through which God can forgive.

This perspective fits well with Eastern Christian spirituality. The Fathers and Desert monks understood repentance primarily as healing and transformation. Sin was viewed as a sickness of the soul, and confession was medicine that helped restore communion with God. Yet they also emphasized the direct encounter between the human heart and the living God. The purpose of spiritual practices is not the practice itself, but union with God.

Thomas Merton expressed a similar insight: external religious practices are valuable because they lead us into deeper relationship with God, not because they replace that relationship. The Church, at its best, points people toward God’s mercy rather than limiting it.

A balanced Christian view can therefore affirm both truths: confession before a priest is a sacred and valuable practice, but God’s mercy is greater than any institution. The Church is a vessel of grace, not the owner of grace. The ultimate source of forgiveness is the love and mercy of God, who welcomes every sincere heart that turns toward Him

in repentance.

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# Confession, priestly absolution, the apostolic and institutional Churches, and the Freedom of God’s Mercy Confession to a priest is one of the great spiritual gifts of Christianity. It provides accountability, humility, spiritual guidance, and the healing that comes from bringing hidden sins into the light. The Church has long understood the priest as a spiritual physician who helps restore the soul, not merely as a judge declaring guilt or innocence. However, recognizing the value of priestly confession does not necessarily require believing that it is the only possible means by which God forgives sins. Scripture repeatedly presents God Himself as the source of forgiveness. The repentant sinner cries out directly to God, and Christ Himself forgives people who come to Him in faith and humility. The parable of the prodigal son shows a Father who runs to meet the repentant child before any formal process takes place. At the same time, Christ did give His apostles authority connected with forgiveness: “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven” (John 20:23). This supports the Christian tradition that the Church has a real ministry of reconciliation. Confession is not merely a human invention; it is a meaningful way God works through His Church. The question is whether this ministry was intended to be the exclusive and absolutely required method of receiving forgiveness. Historical development raises important questions. The formal structure of sacramental confession developed gradually over the centuries, moving from early Christian practices of repentance and reconciliation into the more defined practice of private confession to a priest. If the institution developed over time, it suggests that the practice may be a profound expression of Christian wisdom rather than the only possible channel through which God can forgive. This perspective fits well with Eastern Christian spirituality. The Fathers and Desert monks understood repentance primarily as healing and transformation. Sin was viewed as a sickness of the soul, and confession was medicine that helped restore communion with God. Yet they also emphasized the direct encounter between the human heart and the living God. The purpose of spiritual practices is not the practice itself, but union with God. Thomas Merton expressed a similar insight: external religious practices are valuable because they lead us into deeper relationship with God, not because they replace that relationship. The Church, at its best, points people toward God’s mercy rather than limiting it. A balanced Christian view can therefore affirm both truths: confession before a priest is a sacred and valuable practice, but God’s mercy is greater than any institution. The Church is a vessel of grace, not the owner of grace. The ultimate source of forgiveness is the love and mercy of God, who welcomes every sincere heart that turns toward Him in repentance.

#2

@linate

Confession has the same benefits as sharing with a therapist your inner conflicts. You can be counselled.

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#3

@linate

⚠️ This comment has been marked as offensive.

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#4

Did priestly confession even exist with augustines time?

Yes, confession existed in St. Augustine’s time (late 4th and early 5th centuries), but **it looked almost completely different** from modern Catholic or Orthodox confession.

People often get confused because Augustine wrote a famous book titled *Confessions*. However, in his title, "confession" meant praising God and confessing his inner life and past sins directly to God—it was not a manual about the Church sacrament.

Regarding sacramental confession to a priest or bishop in the 400s AD, the practice operated under entirely different norms:

### 1. It Was Public and Once-in-a-Lifetime

In the early Church, the formal process of repentance (*exomologesis* or *penitentia*) was reserved primarily for major, severe sins like murder, apostasy (denying the faith under persecution), or adultery.

* **Non-Repeatable:** For a long time, this canonical penance could only be received **once in a person's lifetime** after baptism. If you fell into major sin a second time, you could not undergo public penance again.

* **Public Reconciliation:** A person would confess their sin to the bishop (sometimes privately first), but the **penance itself was deeply public**. The penitent was placed in a special class of believers (*order of penitents*), sat in a designated area of the church, wore sackcloth and ashes, and was barred from receiving Holy Communion for months or even years.

* **The Bishop's Role:** At the end of the public penance, the bishop (as the leader of the local community) laid hands on the person and solemnly reconciled them to the Church.

Because the penance was so severe and could only be done once, many Christians in Augustine's era delayed public penance until they were on their deathbed—much like many delayed baptism!

### 2. Everyday Sins Were Forgiven Direct to God

Augustine made a clear distinction between "grave sins" (*crimina*) and daily "light sins" (*peccata quotidiana*—like impatience, white lies, or anger).

For everyday sins, Augustine explicitly taught that **confession to a priest was not required**. In his sermons, he instructed his congregation that daily sins were forgiven through:

* Praying the Lord’s Prayer directly to God (*"Forgive us our trespasses..."*)

* Almsgiving and acts of charity

* Fasting and sincere personal contrition

* Taking the Eucharist

He explicitly told his flock:

> *"Do penance as it is done in the Church, so that the Church may pray for you. Let no one say to himself: 'I do it secretly, I do it before God...' Was it then said without reason, 'What you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven'?"*

>

However, Augustine applied this **specifically to severe, public scandals** that damaged the body of the Church—not to daily human failings.

### 3. Private, Whispered Confession Did Not Yet Exist

If you walked into a church in Hippo (where Augustine was bishop) in the year 410 AD, you would **not** find a confessional box, a line of people waiting every Saturday, or private, repeatable, weekly absolution.

* The idea of going to a priest in secret to confess *all* sins (grave or light) on a regular, ongoing basis was completely unknown in Late Antiquity.

* That modern form of **private, repeatable auricular confession** was developed centuries later by Celtic monks in Ireland and Britain (around the 6th–7th centuries). They brought their monastic practice of having a "soul-friend" (*anam ċara*) to mainland Europe, which eventually transformed the entire Western Church's practice.

### Summary

In St. Augustine’s time:

1. **Yes, Church absolution existed**, but it was a rare, once-in-a-lifetime public discipline for catastrophic sins.

2. **Direct confession to God** was the normal, daily way every Christian sought forgiveness for standard sins.

This historical reality supports the exact point you raised earlier: the institutional framework for how the Church ministers God's mercy has evolved dramatically over time to serve different pastoral needs.

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Did priestly confession even exist with augustines time?Yes, confession existed in St. Augustine’s time (late 4th and early 5th centuries), but **it looked almost completely different** from modern Catholic or Orthodox confession.People often get confused because Augustine wrote a famous book titled *Confessions*. However, in his title, "confession" meant praising God and confessing his inner life and past sins directly to God—it was not a manual about the Church sacrament.Regarding sacramental confession to a priest or bishop in the 400s AD, the practice operated under entirely different norms:### 1. It Was Public and Once-in-a-LifetimeIn the early Church, the formal process of repentance (*exomologesis* or *penitentia*) was reserved primarily for major, severe sins like murder, apostasy (denying the faith under persecution), or adultery. * **Non-Repeatable:** For a long time, this canonical penance could only be received **once in a person's lifetime** after baptism. If you fell into major sin a second time, you could not undergo public penance again. * **Public Reconciliation:** A person would confess their sin to the bishop (sometimes privately first), but the **penance itself was deeply public**. The penitent was placed in a special class of believers (*order of penitents*), sat in a designated area of the church, wore sackcloth and ashes, and was barred from receiving Holy Communion for months or even years. * **The Bishop's Role:** At the end of the public penance, the bishop (as the leader of the local community) laid hands on the person and solemnly reconciled them to the Church.Because the penance was so severe and could only be done once, many Christians in Augustine's era delayed public penance until they were on their deathbed—much like many delayed baptism!### 2. Everyday Sins Were Forgiven Direct to GodAugustine made a clear distinction between "grave sins" (*crimina*) and daily "light sins" (*peccata quotidiana*—like impatience, white lies, or anger).For everyday sins, Augustine explicitly taught that **confession to a priest was not required**. In his sermons, he instructed his congregation that daily sins were forgiven through: * Praying the Lord’s Prayer directly to God (*"Forgive us our trespasses..."*) * Almsgiving and acts of charity * Fasting and sincere personal contrition * Taking the EucharistHe explicitly told his flock:> *"Do penance as it is done in the Church, so that the Church may pray for you. Let no one say to himself: 'I do it secretly, I do it before God...' Was it then said without reason, 'What you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven'?"*> However, Augustine applied this **specifically to severe, public scandals** that damaged the body of the Church—not to daily human failings.### 3. Private, Whispered Confession Did Not Yet ExistIf you walked into a church in Hippo (where Augustine was bishop) in the year 410 AD, you would **not** find a confessional box, a line of people waiting every Saturday, or private, repeatable, weekly absolution. * The idea of going to a priest in secret to confess *all* sins (grave or light) on a regular, ongoing basis was completely unknown in Late Antiquity. * That modern form of **private, repeatable auricular confession** was developed centuries later by Celtic monks in Ireland and Britain (around the 6th–7th centuries). They brought their monastic practice of having a "soul-friend" (*anam ċara*) to mainland Europe, which eventually transformed the entire Western Church's practice.### SummaryIn St. Augustine’s time: 1. **Yes, Church absolution existed**, but it was a rare, once-in-a-lifetime public discipline for catastrophic sins. 2. **Direct confession to God** was the normal, daily way every Christian sought forgiveness for standard sins.This historical reality supports the exact point you raised earlier: the institutional framework for how the Church ministers God's mercy has evolved dramatically over time to serve different pastoral needs.

#5

@linate

Catholics are required to confess all serious mortal sins at least once a year.

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(Last edited by Sidewalker on )

#6

@Debby

Debby wrote:

Catholics are required to confess all serious mortal sins at least once a year.

Aren't all mortal sins serious, isn't that what makes them "mortal" sins in the first place.

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#7

@Debby, @Sidewalker

Nah, as if GODDO has the time to worry about every single human transgression.

Though let's be honest, the concept of human transgression was made up, not by a hypothetical GOD but by stupid men being clever...And as ever, the stupidly gullible can be coerced by the clever into believing any old tosh.

And then the priest would go and explain salvation to the altar boy.

Clever stupid gene.

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#8

@SergeantLynch

It’s obvious you haven’t done any confession with your priest. You are still following the devil.

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#9

@Debby

I am an atheist Debby...I have no priest and no devil.

A priest is a bloke that dresses up and pretends.

And the devil is a nubile woman in a red skin-tight latex catsuit...Yes, we can but dream.

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(Last edited by Stephen on )

#10

@linate

Confession was introduced into church dogma in the early 12/13 hundreds. It was simply a way for the local priest to know what was going on in the towns and villages of the time. i.e. Who was doing what and to who they were doing it to or with. The priest got to learn the local gossip to know if Mrs jones was shagging her husbands brother or John Smith had slipped one into a married woman while his brother Michael was raiding her hen house.

This then could be used by the priest to reveal to the guilty what god had revealed to him about Jones and Smith.

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#11

@Stephen

It was a way a priest could interact with his congregation and know the problems they were dealing with

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#12

A confession before a priest is like going to see a shrink. That's all.

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#13

@Misterio

Misterio wrote:

A confession before a priest is like going to see a shrink. That's all.

Are you telling us you've done both?

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#14

@Sidewalker

Sidewalker wrote:

Misterio wrote:

A confession before a priest is like going to see a shrink. That's all.

Are you telling us you've done both?

Yes, I once visited a psychotherapist. It's not a big deal, you tell what bothers you and he replies saying it's all good, nothing more. The only difference is that the priest forces you to pray for redemption while the shrink prescribes you medication in certain cases, it wasn't my case though.

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<blockquote><a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/101/confession-to-priests-are-sources-of-forgiveness-but-not-necessarily-required?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Sidewalker wrote:</a></blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote><a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/101/confession-to-priests-are-sources-of-forgiveness-but-not-necessarily-required?comment_number=12" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Misterio wrote:</a></blockquote><blockquote>A confession before a priest is like going to see a shrink. That's all.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Are you telling us you've done both?</blockquote>Yes, I once visited a psychotherapist. It's not a big deal, you tell what bothers you and he replies saying it's all good, nothing more. The only difference is that the priest forces you to pray for redemption while the shrink prescribes you medication in certain cases, it wasn't my case though.

#15

@Misterio

Misterio wrote:

Sidewalker wrote:

Misterio wrote:

A confession before a priest is like going to see a shrink. That's all.

Are you telling us you've done both?

Yes, I once visited a psychotherapist. It's not a big deal, you tell what bothers you and he replies saying it's all good, nothing more. The only difference is that the priest forces you to pray for redemption while the shrink prescribes you medication in certain cases, it wasn't my case though.

I wasn't judging you or anything, just wondering if you knew what you were talking about. On these boards, more often than not, we have experts that don't know anything about what they are talking about (you know, parental experts who never had a child, Atheists who are experts on how to be a Theist, that kind of thing). I only asked out of curiosity because your posts usually strike me as sincere, that's rare here.

Anyway, I've been there and done that too, not Catholic but worked through things with both ministers and counselors, and I agree with you, they are essentially the same process, one is working with the unconscious mind and the other with the Kingdom that is within, same-o same-o. So, I've gone to both, but for different reasons, learned a lot by comparison of the two also.

I've actually engaged a third option, had a long and close relationship with a Medicine woman, she was a heap big spirit woman and let me tell you, it takes on a whole new dimension when you are pretty sure that your therapist could turn you into a newt if she wanted to.

Nobody gave me drugs though.

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<blockquote><a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/101/confession-to-priests-are-sources-of-forgiveness-but-not-necessarily-required?comment_number=14" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Misterio wrote:</a></blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote><a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/101/confession-to-priests-are-sources-of-forgiveness-but-not-necessarily-required?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Sidewalker wrote:</a></blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote><a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/101/confession-to-priests-are-sources-of-forgiveness-but-not-necessarily-required?comment_number=12" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Misterio wrote:</a></blockquote><blockquote>A confession before a priest is like going to see a shrink. That's all.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Are you telling us you've done both?</blockquote><blockquote>Yes, I once visited a psychotherapist. It's not a big deal, you tell what bothers you and he replies saying it's all good, nothing more. The only difference is that the priest forces you to pray for redemption while the shrink prescribes you medication in certain cases, it wasn't my case though.</blockquote> I wasn't judging you or anything, just wondering if you knew what you were talking about. On these boards, more often than not, we have experts that don't know anything about what they are talking about (you know, parental experts who never had a child, Atheists who are experts on how to be a Theist, that kind of thing). I only asked out of curiosity because your posts usually strike me as sincere, that's rare here. Anyway, I've been there and done that too, not Catholic but worked through things with both ministers and counselors, and I agree with you, they are essentially the same process, one is working with the unconscious mind and the other with the Kingdom that is within, same-o same-o. So, I've gone to both, but for different reasons, learned a lot by comparison of the two also. I've actually engaged a third option, had a long and close relationship with a Medicine woman, she was a heap big spirit woman and let me tell you, it takes on a whole new dimension when you are pretty sure that your therapist could turn you into a newt if she wanted to. Nobody gave me drugs though.

#16

@Sidewalker

Sidewalker wrote:

I've actually engaged a third option, had a long and close relationship with a Medicine woman, she was a heap big spirit woman and let me tell you, it takes on a whole new dimension when you are pretty sure that your therapist could turn you into a newt if she wanted to.

Oh, I didn't know you were in this New Age movement. I guess you are more of the belief in ancient knowledge like the Kyballion.

Aren't you?

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#17

@Misterio

Misterio wrote:

Sidewalker wrote:

I've actually engaged a third option, had a long and close relationship with a Medicine woman, she was a heap big spirit woman and let me tell you, it takes on a whole new dimension when you are pretty sure that your therapist could turn you into a newt if she wanted to.

Oh, I didn't know you were in this New Age movement. I guess you are more of the belief in ancient knowledge like the Kyballion.

Aren't you?

Nope, it's more like the "Old Age" movement lol, I'm Cherokee.

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<blockquote><a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/101/confession-to-priests-are-sources-of-forgiveness-but-not-necessarily-required?comment_number=16" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Misterio wrote:</a></blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote><a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/101/confession-to-priests-are-sources-of-forgiveness-but-not-necessarily-required?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Sidewalker wrote:</a></blockquote><blockquote>I've actually engaged a third option, had a long and close relationship with a Medicine woman, she was a heap big spirit woman and let me tell you, it takes on a whole new dimension when you are pretty sure that your therapist could turn you into a newt if she wanted to.</blockquote><blockquote>Oh, I didn't know you were in this New Age movement. I guess you are more of the belief in ancient knowledge like the Kyballion.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Aren't you?</blockquote> Nope, it's more like the "Old Age" movement lol, I'm Cherokee.

(Last edited by Stephen on )

#18

Confess to who? Some earthly priest that people address as "father". Thereby breaking a commandment given by Jesus himself.

Matthew 23:9 "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven".

You thick, contradictory fkrs do make me fk laugh out loud at times.

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#19

@Stephen

Feckers as father Ted would say.

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#20

@SergeantLynch

Feckers as father Ted would say.

Nice.

Morning Serge. Is it me or have you been awol for the last week or so?

And did you read this above? >>> https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/101/confession-to-priests-are-sources-of-forgiveness-but-not-necessarily-required?page=1&comment_number=10

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#21

@Stephen

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