Evidence of the afterlife

Started by linate

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#31 •••
@SergeantLynch

Plenty to read from linate’s post and links.

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#32 •••
@Debby

As I always say, there is a distinct difference between dead and not dead.


Not dead experiences are recountable to a degree, whereas dead is non-functional.


Though like all dreamlike states, memory thereof has a tendency to be even less efficient than waking memory.


And of course interested parties will also have a tendency to be biased and subjective.

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#33 •••
@SergeantLynch

Hinduism’s key inspiration is reincarnation.

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#34 •••
@Debby

Well most religious corporations propose some sort of post death scenario...It's a part of the deal.

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#35 •••
@SergeantLynch

Even science supports that deal.

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#36 •••
@Debby

Comparative scenarios perhaps differ.

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#37 •••
@SergeantLynch

They have more in common than what divides them.

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#38 •••

Wow! 26 one-on-none conversations! That, alone, looks like evidence of an afterlife!


By the way, just as in mortal life, who says all afterlife experiences are identical? Absurd to think identical a/l experiences are identical, so, what evidence, really, since empirical evidence depends on repeatability and reproducibility of experiments?

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#39 •••
@fauxlaw

Yep, like I always say...Not dead experiences are not dead experiences.


And dead experiences are certainly neither repeatable nor reproduceable.



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#40 •••


At the core, thoughts are generated by neural activity. When you think, neurons in your brain fire, sending electrical impulses along axons and releasing neurotransmitters that transmit signals between cells. Repeating a thought strengthens the connections (synapses) between neurons, creating neural pathways. This is called neuroplasticity — the brain’s ability to physically change its structure in response to thought patterns  Over time, these strengthened pathways make certain thoughts easier to generate, much like a well-worn road. There is no Afterlife, when you are dead you don't exist.

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#41 •••
@FLRW


FLRW wrote:

At the core, thoughts are generated by neural activity.


Neural activity is generated by thoughts.


When you think, neurons in your brain fire, sending electrical impulses along axons and releasing neurotransmitters that transmit signals between cells.


Your next sentence stated it in reverse order, your claim here is that thinking results in neural activity.


Repeating a thought strengthens the connections (synapses) between neurons, creating neural pathways. This is called neuroplasticity — the brain’s ability to physically change its structure in response to thought patterns Over time, these strengthened pathways make certain thoughts easier to generate, much like a well-worn road.


You are still stating that neural activity is generated by thought.


There is no Afterlife, when you are dead you don't exist.


How on Earth does that follow from the argument that preceded it? If there is a chain of reasoning, I don’t see it, it looks like you answered your argument with a non-sequitur. Please explain how that conclusion is logically connected to your argument.

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#42 •••
@Sidewalker

crab

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#43 •••
@Sidewalker

The statement that neural activity is generated by thoughts is considered incorrect or a reversal of causality in neuroscience.  Thoughts are the subjective experience or emergent property of electrochemical neural activity, not the external cause that initiates it. 

  1. Neural Activity Precedes Thought: Every neuron’s activity is the result of inputs from other cells, sensory stimuli, or spontaneous internal processes. These electrochemical signals are the thoughts, rather than being caused by them. 
  2. Emergent Property: Thoughts emerge from the complex interaction of billions of neurons firing in specific patterns. There is no "pure thought" that exists outside of this physical brain activity to trigger it. 
  3. Spontaneous Activation: A significant portion of brain activity is endogenous (internal) and spontaneous, driven by the brain's intrinsic functional architecture and memory associations, rather than being solely triggered by conscious thoughts. 


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#44 •••
@Sidewalker

crab

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#45 •••

See Daniel Dennett’s book Consciousness Explained which presents a materialist theory that consciousness arises from physical and cognitive brain processes rather than a non-physical soul.

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#46 •••
@FLRW

This is probably the single most relevant objection to OP. If the soul doesnt exist, then there can be no afterlife.

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. - Christopher Hitchens

#47 •••
@FLRW, @UmbrellaCorp

Lobster.

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#48 •••
@FLRW


FLRW wrote:
crab


Oh, I see it now, your argument is logical, thanks for explicating.

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#49 •••
@SergeantLynch

i don't think lobsters are sidewalkers


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#50 •••
@FLRW


FLRW wrote:
The statement that neural activity is generated by thoughts is considered incorrect or a reversal of causality in neuroscience.  


Then why did you argue otherwise?


I don’t think this assertion came from studying neuroscience, it appears to be a statement of faith.


Thoughts are the subjective experience or emergent property of electrochemical neural activity, not the external cause that initiates it. 


Thoughts are an external cause? Where do they come from then? Are you saying there is some kind of external entity that is doing the thinking?


Neural Activity Precedes Thought: Every neuron’s activity is the result of inputs from other cells, sensory stimuli,


That would be an internal cause, not an external cause.


or spontaneous internal processes.


Are you saying you have no volitional control over your thoughts? They just happen?


Are you making an arguing for determinism?


These electrochemical signals are the thoughts, rather than being caused by them. 


Our state of conscious awareness is a feature that trumps all others in the matter of epistemic authority, and we are intrinsically aware that consciousness is an active force that we can exert upon the universe.


Consciousness has this causal influence due to its content, not solely because of the physical aspects of its neural correlates. A continuous conscious state includes desires or intentions; it includes the ability to envision a future state and establish a strategy for attaining that state. That makes it more than a purely physical state, it is a conscious state with reference to a future possibility, and no such reference is part of any purely physical state. The self can exert the force of consciousness to some effect in the material world; such conscious states can have causal effects to bring about further states for the sake of values and purposes. Intents, values, and purposes are not reducible to a purely physical state unless one attributes consciousness to the constituent matter itself; consequently, they exist as properties of a consciousness which clearly entails a distinct ontological existence apart from its constituent material components.


Emergent Property: Thoughts emerge from the complex interaction of billions of neurons firing in specific patterns. There is no "pure thought" that exists outside of this physical brain activity to trigger it. 


There you go again, placing thought outside somewhere, where exactly?


Spontaneous Activation: A significant portion of brain activity is endogenous (internal)


Brain activity happens in the brain, got it. I suppose that’s why they call it “brain” activity.


and spontaneous,


Whoa, are you saying it’s magic? It just happens spontaneously? Cool.


Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that “cause and effect” were kind of a big deal in science. 


driven by the brain's intrinsic functional architecture and memory associations, rather than being solely triggered by conscious thoughts. 


If all you are saying is that thoughts have neural correlates, well duh. I’m not aware of anyone in the field that doesn’t accept that. I’m pretty well studied on the subject, but I’ve never come across this idea that all brain activity is conscious thoughts. Instead, the evidence shows that there is unconscious activity, visceral reactions, background processing, pattern recognition, and learned skills (Can you walk, ride a bike, did you learn your multiplication tables?).


There are older brain systems whose activity occurs well below the level of awareness which are directly involved in the orientation of the thinking processes, they are known to exhort the brain to think in certain ways.


I think your argument is confusing at best, and even if it wasn't, I don't see what it has to do with the question of “Evidence of the afterlife”.



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#51 •••
@Sidewalker

Jesus is the real evidence of an after life. His resurrection was witnessed by thousands and recorded in the Bible for all times.

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#52 •••
@Debby


Debby wrote:
Jesus is the real evidence of an after life. His resurrection was witnessed by thousands and recorded in the Bible for all times.


Over 500, not thousands.

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#53 •••
@Sidewalker

Thank you for the correction. I got it mixed with his other miracles.

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#54 •••
@Debby

So who were those thousands of witnesses?


The tomb must have been somewhat cramped.

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#55 •••
@UmbrellaCorp

Crabs have evolved to walk sideways in order to avoid running into Lobsters.


Though both possess the ability to make a nice salad.

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#56 •••
@Debby


Debby wrote:
Jesus is the real evidence of an after life. His resurrection was witnessed by thousands and recorded in the Bible for all times.


His claimed resurrection was said to have been witnessed by hundreds. Claims are not evidence.

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. - Christopher Hitchens

#57 •••
@SkepticalOne

The claim that Jesus appeared to more that 500 at one time is found in 1 Corinthians 15:6 written by Paul.

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#58 •••
@SergeantLynch
Crabs have evolved to walk sideways in order to avoid running into Lobsters.

Though both possess the ability to make a nice salad.


Completely unrelated - I wonder if the seafood place down the road will be busy this evening...

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. - Christopher Hitchens

#59 •••
@SkepticalOne

Yum Yum... Mrs SergeantLynch is very partial to a Dressed Crab Salad.


I find lobster a bit of a faff and prefer something meatier, such as scallops or tuna, though you cannot beat a bit of freshly caught mackeral.


I know a great place in Fishguard...Do you know where that is?

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#60 •••
@SergeantLynch
I know a great place in Fishguard...Do you know where that is?

Wales, eh? It's quite the commute for me. Perhaps, you would consider a place in Ft Worth? 🤣

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. - Christopher Hitchens