#1

This post addresses only the Holy Bible, but the title is true, regardless of religion.

Simply put, belief is limited by function. In particular, no function is necessary with belief. We can believe whatever we want, mainly due to our literal free agency. I can believe there are Na'vi [tall, slender, blue-skinned humanoids] on the moon, Pandora, but I am not compelled to do a bloody thing about that belief, or any other. Belief can be a simple noun or verb, "believe."

However, the distinction of faith, as opposed to belief, is that faith demands our personal commitment to action, or it is not faith. Above, belief was shown to be, as for personal commitment, more noun than verb.

Both words are used in scripture. However, they cannot and should not be interchanged by random choice. In fact, in Greek, in the New Testament, at least, [Koine Greek is the apparent original written language], words are used to try to equate the use of one to mean the other. Examples:

Philippians 1:29 "For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake," In Greek, the bolded Greek word is: πιστεύειν [pisteuein], "to have faith." This translation is substantiated by the added phrase "... but also to suffer for his sake." adding action to the conviction by faith.
I John 4: 1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." In Greek, the bolded Greek word is: πιστεύετε [pisteuete], "do not believe." This translation 'believe" ignores the Greek root pisteu... which should have translated as "Have not faith," that is, do not act on the word of every spirit...
2 Thessalonians 2:13 "...because God chose you⁺ from the beginning unto salvation in the sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" In Greek, the bolded Greek word is: πίστει [pistei], "[by] faith This translation 'believe" ignores the Greek root pistei... which should have been translated as "[in] faith."

All of these translations of the Bible where "faith" ought to be the word used, use instead "belief," or proper noun/verb distinctions of same. This is not correct, because the Greek root πιστεύ [pisteu] means expected action on faith in every instance. It is by personal action on the suggestion given that confirms the truth of that in which faith was applied.

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This post addresses only the Holy Bible, but the title is true, regardless of religion.Simply put, belief is limited by function. In particular, no function is necessary with belief. We can believe whatever we want, mainly due to our literal free agency. I can believe there are Na'vi [tall, slender, blue-skinned humanoids] on the moon, Pandora, but I am not compelled to do a bloody thing about that belief, or any other. Belief can be a simple noun or verb, "believe." However, the distinction of faith, as opposed to belief, is that faith demands our personal commitment to action, or it is not faith. Above, belief was shown to be, as for personal commitment, more noun than verb. Both words are used in scripture. However, they cannot and should not be interchanged by random choice. In fact, in Greek, in the New Testament, at least, [Koine Greek is the apparent original written language], words are used to try to equate the use of one to mean the other. Examples: <ol><li> Philippians 1:29 "For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake," In Greek, the bolded Greek word is: πιστεύειν [pisteuein], "to have faith." This translation is substantiated by the added phrase "... but also to suffer for his sake." adding action to the conviction by faith.</li><li> I John 4: 1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." In Greek, the bolded Greek word is: πιστεύετε [pisteuete], "do not believe." This translation 'believe" ignores the Greek root pisteu... which should have translated as "Have not faith," that is, do not act on the word of every spirit... </li><li>2 Thessalonians 2:13 "...because God chose you⁺ from the beginning unto salvation in the sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" In Greek, the bolded Greek word is: πίστει [pistei], "[by] faith This translation 'believe" ignores the Greek root pistei... which should have been translated as "[in] faith." </li></ol> All of these translations of the Bible where "faith" ought to be the word used, use instead "belief," or proper noun/verb distinctions of same. This is not correct, because the Greek root πιστεύ [pisteu] means expected action on faith in every instance. It is by personal action on the suggestion given that confirms the truth of that in which faith was applied.

We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#2

You need both acceptance(belief) and trust(faith) to put that belief into practice.

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#3

@fauxlaw

All very ambiguous then.

Both words are used in scripture. However, they cannot and should not be interchanged

Is this to say that not any words or phrases in the bible are interchangeable?

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#4

@Stephen

The Bible was written with colloquial terms that were in use at that time. That is why several translations of the Bible are in use.

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#5

colloquial terms.

Ok give me some examples other than "faith" and "belief" that are not interchangeable.

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(Last edited by Debby on )

#6

@Stephen

You have to believe what is said in the Bible. At the same time have faith that what is said is true.

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#7

Debby;

I am speaking to more than the practice of ideal thoughts and actions. I am speaking to the acquisition of knowledge gained by means not currently recognized by empirical science.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#8

@Stephen

Is this to say that not any words or phrases in the bible are interchangeable?

No, that is way too broad a statement. However, we sometimes run into issues of language simply because no language shares an exact lexicon with another language. For example: "love." One word in English is seven in Greek. To equate to Greek, English must add adverbs or adjectives to equate to the variations extant in Greek. In the Bible, seldom are these qualifiers added to the text in translation, just the one word "love." Sometimes, the surrounding context does lead one to know of which type of love is discussed, but when that is missing, we're left to either ignore it, or, seek to find the answer. We are given, biblically, the means to try to find out, and it is best done on our knees in serious prayer.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#9

This discussion is all well and good, but as long as gov't spending outpaces revenue, the debt will never be reduced to zero. I don't care how much taxes increase on anybody, rich or poor, that increase will be eaten by interest on the debt plus rising spending. We fare far better economically, even the poor to middle class, when investment by the top third of the tax-paying population feeds the economy at the bottom line: GDP. About 37% of us - not enough - invest in various accounts outside of retirement plans. I participate in both investment and charity. The latter always exceeds in monthly commitment.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#10

Psychic knowledge is knowledge too.

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#11

@fauxlaw

Stephen:Is this to say that not any words or phrases in the bible are interchangeable?

No, that is way too broad a statement. However, we sometimes run into issues of language simply because no language shares an exact lexicon with another language. For example: "love." One word in English is seven in Greek. To equate to Greek, English must add adverbs or adjectives to equate to the variations extant in Greek. In the Bible, seldom are these qualifiers added to the text in translation, just the one word "love." Sometimes, the surrounding context does lead one to know of which type of love is discussed, but when that is missing, we're left to either ignore it, or, seek to find the answer. We are given, biblically, the means to try to find out, and it is best done on our knees in serious prayer.

So we are back to my old argument that, by your own standard, ANY bible written in the English language is pointless, futile, meaningless and should be consigned to the rubbish skip.

The bible in English is still written in English , the new and even newer versions are written in English. It is preached in from the bible in English. No doubt you read to your own congregation from a bible written in the English Or do you actually translate it into ancient koine Greek on the hoof as you go?

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<blockquote>Stephen:Is this to say that not any words or phrases in the bible are interchangeable?</blockquote> <blockquote>No, that is way too broad a statement. However, we sometimes run into issues of language simply because no language shares an exact lexicon with another language. For example: "love." One word in English is seven in Greek. To equate to Greek, English must add adverbs or adjectives to equate to the variations extant in Greek. In the Bible, seldom are these qualifiers added to the text in translation, just the one word "love." Sometimes, the surrounding context does lead one to know of which type of love is discussed, but when that is missing, we're left to either ignore it, or, seek to find the answer. We are given, biblically, the means to try to find out, and it is best done on our knees in serious prayer.</blockquote> So we are back to my old argument that, by your own standard, ANY bible written in the English language is pointless, futile, meaningless and should be consigned to the rubbish skip. The bible in English is still written in English , the new and even newer versions are written in English. It is preached in from the bible in English. No doubt you read to your own congregation from a bible written in the English Or do you actually translate it into ancient koine Greek on the hoof as you go?

#12

@Stephen

The English translation of the Bible help spread the Bible to the English speaking world. Now the two worlds are in harmony. That’s a success story.

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#13

@Stephen

No, I don't claim to be a qualified translator. I can do some, quite a lot between English and French, but not as a professional. And my vocabulary isn't sufficient in Greek, though I can read it with a handy dictionary for vocabulary I don't know.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#14

That is not enough to translate the original Hebrew Bible or the Greek New Testament.

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#15

@fauxlaw

Stephen: So we are back to my old argument that, by your own standard, ANY bible written in the English language is pointless, futile, meaningless and should be consigned to the rubbish skip.

The bible in English is still written in English , the new and even newer versions are written in English. It is preached in from the bible in English. No doubt you read to your own congregation from a bible written in the English Or do you actually translate it into ancient koine Greek on the hoof as you go?

faux law:No, I don't claim to be a qualified translator. I can do some, quite a lot between English and French, but not as a professional. And my vocabulary isn't sufficient in Greek, though I can read it with a handy dictionary for vocabulary I don't know.

OK. With your handy dictionary in hand; Translate for me the meaning of these New Testament verses from your preferred bible:

Matthew 10:34-40

King James Version

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

I believe I know exactly what they mean..

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<blockquote>Stephen: So we are back to my old argument that, by your own standard, ANY bible written in the English language is pointless, futile, meaningless and should be consigned to the rubbish skip.</blockquote><blockquote>The bible in English is still written in English , the new and even newer versions are written in English. It is preached in from the bible in English. No doubt you read to your own congregation from a bible written in the English Or do you actually translate it into ancient koine Greek on the hoof as you go?</blockquote> faux law:No, I don't claim to be a qualified translator. I can do some, quite a lot between English and French, but not as a professional. And my vocabulary isn't sufficient in Greek, though I can read it with a handy dictionary for vocabulary I don't know. OK. With your handy dictionary in hand; Translate for me the meaning of these New Testament verses from your preferred bible: <h1>Matthew 10:34-40</h1><h1> </h1><h1>King James Version</h1><h1> </h1>34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. I believe I know exactly what they mean..

#16

@Debby

The English translation of the Bible help spread the Bible to the English speaking world. Now the two worlds are in harmony. That’s a success story.

Indeed . But according to Fauxlaw , the bible written in English cannot be fully understood unless one knows and understands the original Koine Greek language.

So can I assume that you read and understand the ancient language of Koine Greek, Deb?

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#17

@Stephen

Some translations are better than others.

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#18

@Debby

Debby: The English translation of the Bible help spread the Bible to the English speaking world. Now the two worlds are in harmony. That’s a success story.

Stephen: Indeed . But according to Fauxlaw , the bible written in English cannot be fully understood unless one knows and understands the original Koine Greek language. So can I assume that you read and understand the ancient language of Koine Greek, Deb?

Debby: Some translations are better than others.

So that's a NO, to my question then Deb.. Meaning that you too have been wasting your time because (1) You can't read to begin with and (2) You can't read nor speak ancient Greek..

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#19

@Stephen

We have scholars who have read the original manuscripts written in Hebrew and Greek like Bart Ehrman and verified the veracity of the Bible.Do some research before you open your mouth.

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#20

@Debby

Debby: We have scholars who have read the original manuscripts written in Hebrew and Greek like Bart Ehrman and verified the veracity of the Bible.

Bart Ehrman!? The same highly acclaimed Bart Ehrman that was once an evangelical conservative Christian who believed and preached that the Bible was completely without error?

But has now truly seen the light and become an agnostic atheist? Is that the Bart Ehrman you are referring to?

Debby:Do some research before you open your mouth.

HERE>> read this you absolute dunce.

A Case Study: Bart Ehrman, a “Christian” Who Lost His Faith

https://www.epm.org/resources/2020/Apr/15/case-study-bart-ehrman/

Off you go stupid.

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<blockquote>Debby: We have scholars who have read the original manuscripts written in Hebrew and Greek like Bart Ehrman and verified the veracity of the Bible.</blockquote> Bart Ehrman!? The same highly acclaimed Bart Ehrman that was once an evangelical conservative Christian who believed and preached that the Bible was completely without error? But has now truly seen the light and become an agnostic atheist? Is that the Bart Ehrman you are referring to? <blockquote>Debby:Do some research before you open your mouth.</blockquote> <img src="https://debatecraft.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/36776831-1c72-4fc3-a29c-b1b62aa7ee5b.png" /><img /><h1 class="ql-align-center">HERE>> read this you absolute dunce. </h1><h1 class="ql-align-center"> A Case Study: Bart Ehrman, a “Christian” Who Lost His Faith</h1> <a href="https://www.epm.org/resources/2020/Apr/15/case-study-bart-ehrman/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.epm.org/resources/2020/Apr/15/case-study-bart-ehrman/</a> <img src="https://debatecraft.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/68787dbf-90f2-4fce-98c4-db3950372e34.png" />Off you go stupid.<img />

#21

@Stephen

Yes he lost his faith but he maintained the integrity of the Bible were minor errors were human errors made during coping of the manuscripts. He did not give up his job as a Bible scholar and professor.

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#22

@Debby

Debby :yes he - [highly acclaimed Christian biblical scholar Bart Ehrman] lost his faith.

And has had to correct his mistakes many times over. His first being that after declaring and believing that the bible was "completely without error" for most of his adult life he now admits that he was wrong and that the bible is riddled with errors.

Just go away Deb. You really are fkd without the use AI..... there again, you were fkd when you did rely on it LOL

Off you go now.

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#23

@Stephen

Bart Ehrman pointed to minor errors committed by the scribes copying and duplicating the manuscripts. But he did not find the errors significant enough to alter themessage. He attributed these errors to human errors.

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#24

Deb. Are you honestly trying to tell us that you believe that the once deeply devout and highly acclaimed Christian Bart Ehrman; a biblical; scholar no less: lost his faith totally over a "few minor human errors in the bible !??

You really have lost you fkn mind. Ask yourself this, STUPID:

instead of giving up on the bible and god and losing his faith in his god, why didn't this BIBLICAL scholar and once devout Christian simply correct those

"few MINOR" mistakes?

You really are a fkn IDIOT!, Deb

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#25

@Stephen

Bart Ehrman continued his scholarly teaching and remained a Christian but it remained shaped by his scholarly development.

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#26

@Debby

Bart Ehrman continued his scholarly teaching and remained a Christian

He didn't remain Christian, stop lying Or is your favourite go-to scholar simply lying about himself and his credentials?

SEE HERE>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzUbsHqrO9A A Scholar's Revelation: Bart Ehrman's Reasons for Not Being a Christian: by Bart Ehrman

AND HERE>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6DUD1KHEnk Why Doesn't Bart Believe in God?: by Bart Ehrman

And try answering this honestly you absolute lying clown

So how many of those "minor human Errors has Bart Ehrman corrected?

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<blockquote>Bart Ehrman continued his scholarly teaching and remained a Christian</blockquote> He didn't remain Christian, stop lying Or is your favourite go-to scholar simply lying about himself and his credentials? SEE HERE>>><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzUbsHqrO9A" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzUbsHqrO9A</a> A Scholar's Revelation: Bart Ehrman's Reasons for Not Being a Christian: by Bart Ehrman  AND HERE>>><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6DUD1KHEnk" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6DUD1KHEnk</a> Why Doesn't Bart Believe in God?: by Bart Ehrman  And try answering this honestly you absolute lying clown So how many of those "minor human Errors has Bart Ehrman corrected?

#27

@Stephen

Why is Bart Ehrman still teaching the Bible if he is not a Christian. His new book acknowledges Jesus was a historical figure and after his resurrection was exalted to God. Those are very Christian beliefs.

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#28

@Debby

Why is So how many of those "minor human Errors has Bart Ehrman corrected?still teaching the Bible if he is not a Christian.

Are you that dumb that you cannot work even that out for yourself!?

His new book acknowledges Jesus was a historical figure......

So? Even I acknowledge that a MAN named Jesus existed, had followers and was probably nailed to a cross for crimes against Rome. SO WHAT!?

......and after his resurrection was exalted to God. Those are very Christian beliefs.

STOP fkn lying AGAIN! . Show me anywhere that Bart Ehrman says he believes Jesus came back from the dead , and went to heaven or god.

I have shown you, Bart Ehrman in HIS OWN fkn words does not believe any of those things and neither do I.

And you keep avoiding this question, Why?

So answer the question or else our conversation ends here and you can hope someone else is patient enough to put up with you continuous contradictory lying nonsense.

How many of those "minor human Errors has Bart Ehrman corrected?

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<blockquote>Why is So how many of those "minor human Errors has Bart Ehrman corrected?still teaching the Bible if he is not a Christian.</blockquote> Are you that dumb that you cannot work even that out for yourself!? <blockquote> His new book acknowledges Jesus was a historical figure......</blockquote> So? Even I acknowledge that a MAN named Jesus existed, had followers and was probably nailed to a cross for crimes against Rome. SO WHAT!? <blockquote> ......and after his resurrection was exalted to God. Those are very Christian beliefs.</blockquote> STOP fkn lying AGAIN! . Show me anywhere that Bart Ehrman says he believes Jesus came back from the dead , and went to heaven or god. I have shown you, Bart Ehrman in HIS OWN fkn words does not believe any of those things and neither do I. And you keep avoiding this question, Why? So answer the question or else our conversation ends here and you can hope someone else is patient enough to put up with you continuous contradictory lying nonsense. How many of those "minor human Errors has Bart Ehrman corrected?

#29

@Stephen

Read Bart Erhman’s book How Jesus became God. Bart Ehrman reinforces Christian beliefs Jesus was a human prophet who was elevated to divine status and made a heavenly being only after God raised him from the dead.

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(Last edited by Stephen on )

#30

@Debby

Read Bart Erhman’s book How Jesus became God. Bart Ehrman reinforces Christian beliefs Jesus was a human prophet who was elevated to divine status and made a heavenly being only after God raised him from the dead.

I watched his talk on the mater. I know you have neither re\d the book nor watched the video on the subject. This is just more bollocks from you. If you had read or watched the video on the matter you'd immediately understand the title of both. But you are simply far too thick to understand.

Here's just one of the many of Bart Ehrman's own videos on the subject.

How Jesus Became God | Dr. Bart D. Ehrman >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDDO_tNXvbI maybe the title is a bit misleading for your empty swede. The title should maybe have been - How Christians made Jesus A God? Because THAT IS HIS FKN CLAIM!!!! in context.

. I. have proven to you over and over that your pinup boy Bart Ehrman is no longer a believer nor a Christian. Frankly i'm fk sick of you, you absolute numbskull

Conversation ends here.

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Read Bart Erhman’s book How Jesus became God. Bart Ehrman reinforces Christian beliefs Jesus was a human prophet who was elevated to divine status and made a heavenly being only after God raised him from the dead. I watched his talk on the mater. I know you have neither re\d the book nor watched the video on the subject. This is just more bollocks from you. If you had read or watched the video on the matter you'd immediately understand the title of both. But you are simply far too thick to understand. Here's just one of the many of Bart Ehrman's own videos on the subject. How Jesus Became God | Dr. Bart D. Ehrman >>>> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDDO_tNXvbI" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDDO_tNXvbI</a> maybe the title is a bit misleading for your empty swede. The title should maybe have been - How Christians made Jesus A God? Because THAT IS HIS FKN CLAIM!!!! in context. . I. have proven to you over and over that your pinup boy Bart Ehrman is no longer a believer nor a Christian. Frankly i'm fk sick of you, you absolute numbskull Conversation ends here.