What led you to your beliefs?

Reading the Bible led me to my current faith.

My mother read the Bible to me and explained her view on bits when I was young,

I only ever went to church a couple of times,

Family would say prayer before eating, but it was only during holidays and some fancy meals.

Boy Scouts I was in for a time used a Latter-day Saints church as a storage spot and frequent location of meetings and activities. It was a large building.

No one ever talked about religion during Boy Scouts though, nor did they attempt to persuade any of us into their views as I recall.

My mother joined a Baptist church when she was younger, though I don't think she thinks a person needs to be baptized to be saved.

I think she views it more as important ritual and expression of faith.

A complain she's told me before, is how over time, she's come to realize my father wasn't all that religious, but gave the 'impression he was. One of those people who are a bit different after you marry them.

My dad does 'know a fair bit of the Bible, but I'm doubtful he is a believer. Hard to tell though.

His actions are inconsistent with Christianity, in some conversations he calls them just stories and expresses doubt of an afterlife.

I don't dig in too deep into religion with my dad.

But my mother and eldest brother's actions have been fairly consistent with Christianity, their charity creeps me out at times. Not that I am 'incapable of altruism, but I don't go out of my way to act on it.

At times when I 'do act on it, or am in some emotional situation of someone else being thankful, and my being reminded of humanity and I experience such myself.

I've found it unpleasant, I feel reminded/oughted towards duty and care for others.

Peace on Earth and Good Will to all.

Not that I have 'bad will, or 'lack 'all good will.

But I am fond of my Ego and enjoyments in life. I dislike feeling sad and overwhelmed by a situation and wanting to pray.

It comes off to me as weakness,

Nor to pray in joy and thankfulness, though I do not view that as 'weakness, just hypocritical and not my intelectual truth.

. . . Though it's likely I am often hypocritical other times in other views (Shrug)

. . .

Even when I believed in God, I had ended up drifting into Selfish views and Nihilism,

What would be the point in believing again, if I am not going to 'act on it?

It would just be painful than not.

As a child, I saw a lot of Christianity in America,

One see's it everywhere, and assumes that's just the way it is.

I was not frequently or deeply indoctrinated, so I never thought much on it, just took Christianity as true as a fact of life.

. . .

Hm, might be some various books I read in life, fiction or otherwise, influenced my views towards Nihilism, hard to say,

I read a 'lot of books.

When one is not immersed or mindful of something, it fades away.

So it became with my believing Christianity to be true.

Heh,

Not that this theory makes Christianity true or untrue,

Just that I think one is more or less likely to believe something, if one is more or less immersed in it.

Was raised in it, walked my own path.

But coming to a place of feeling absolutely nothing, wanting to die, feeling alone, not ending my life because of family. Jesus reminded me i am his. And i am whole.

It was in weakness and emptiness that his strength was made perfect in me.

What of yourself? What road have you travelled?

A relative of mine (through the Koch family) once said, “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can change this for me.”

I had no job. I couldnt work for 10 hours due to back pain, and all jobs available demanded that long work time. I was depressed. I had no life plan. I was muslim, then atheist, then muslim again, then Christian. Nothing seemed to improve anything in my life. So then I started praying to Satan. I thought it wont do anything for me. And for first few times, it didnt do much. So then I suddenly started getting these ideas, ideas I didnt have before. Idea to start a chicken buisness and generate consistent flow of income was definitely something I never thought of before. I thought it would fail, but Satan and polytheist religions made it work. they gave me knowledge and confidence so I learned about investments, I learned about trade, I learned about cost vs income in buisnesses and advertising, I learned about reducing personal expenses to minimum even tho I never went to economics school, I combined chicken buisness with gold investments, making savings and reducing expenses so any future hole in income can be covered for quite some time. I also learned land gains value over time and can be sold gradually to maximize income if ever needed. So in a way, I have more free time and I still have guaranteed money.

My depression likewise went away. It just went away. Like it was never there. I gained this surprising will to learn and will to advance. I gained this confidence I never had before. And I remained with Satan ever since, only expanded my belief to many other ancient Gods and new modern Gods.

It is true that belief changes your internal thinking, and also affects your external actions then.

I grew up in a family of believers, but we weren’t heavily religious, we didn’t regularly go to church. What changed my mind was actually debate.org. Although I was a believer, I didn’t really participate in religious debates. It was just a thing I believed but never really questioned why.

Then I came across a debate that blew the hole wide open. The debater made the argument that if any person deserved to go to hell, it would have to be God himself, because he is ultimately responsible for the suffering caused in hell.

This debate made me realize that I knew deep down inside religious ideas were silly, but what kept me from questioning them (which is why I avoided the religious forum) was the fear religion installed in me to never question God. Once I realized what it was that was keeping me from applying the same critical thinking towards religion as I did towards everything else in life, that disappeared.

You are the right candidate for A.I.

I have no beliefs, only suggestions.

So I suppose that I was led to non-belief because I was raised and programmed in a reasonably pragmatic way.

Most ardent "believers" would have been programmed differently.

You are the right candidate for A.I.

Compliment or insult?

Then I came across a debate that blew the hole wide open. The debater made the argument that if any person deserved to go to hell, it would have to be God himself, because he is ultimately responsible for the suffering caused in hell.

I was atheist on debate.org. I hope I didnt make that argument. I dont want to be responsible for multiplication of atheists. So do you remember the username of the guy who turned you into atheist?

I don't have a personal journey. What I am is just the way it is meant to be.

I'm an analytical, practical and commonsensical person so to me religions are nonsense, they always were. I'm 100% clear about it. It's better to have a bit of doubt about everything than just giving in to stupid beliefs that have nothing to back it up, not even reason.

Nonetheless, I'm open to everything that has a bit of reasonability. "Life aftear death" is a subject that I'm open to because it has a valid argument, testimonies and to an extent plenty of evidences. The same goes for reincarnation, UFOs, and human extrasensory capabilities.

The statement that "religion is not nonsense" is a perspective that is supported by evidence of religion's positive impacts on mental and physical health, and its role in fostering prosocial behaviors like charity and volunteering. While critics may view religion negatively, many people find it to be a source of meaning, community, and psychological well-being. Psychological and social science research indicates that religious people often report higher levels of happiness and effective coping mechanisms, and religion can provide important social support networks. 

You know that religion was the basis of the 9/11 terror attack, don't you?

Usama bin Laden

Dispatch to Terror Agents on the Eve of 9/11

Following is the full text from a document used by the terrorists responsible for the hijackings of four airplanes on Sept. 11. The document was released by the F.B.I. and translated for The New York Times by Capital Communications Group, a Washington-based international consulting firm and by Imad Musa, a translator for the firm.

The Last Night

1) Make an oath to die and renew your intentions. Shave excess hair from the body and wear cologne. Shower.

2) Make sure you know all aspects of the plan well, and expect the response, or a reaction, from the enemy.

3) Read al-Tawba and Anfal [traditional war chapters from the Quran] and reflect on their meanings and remember all of the things that God has promised for the martyrs.

4) Remind your soul to listen and obey [all divine orders] and remember that you will face decisive situations that might prevent you from 100 percent obedience, so tame your soul, purify it, convince it, make it understand, and incite it. God said: "Obey God and His Messenger, and do not fight amongst yourselves or else you will fail. And be patient, for God is with the patient."

5) Pray during the night and be persistent in asking God to give you victory, control and conquest, and that He may make your task easier and not expose us.

The al-Qaeda terrorist network, led by Osama bin Laden, launched the 9/11 attacks for a complex mix of political and religious reasons

. Bin Laden viewed American foreign policy in the Middle East as a series of aggressions against the Muslim world and sought to provoke the U.S. into a larger conflict. 

The statement that "religion is not nonsense" is a perspective that is supported by evidence of religion's positive impacts on mental and physical health, and its role in fostering prosocial behaviors like charity and volunteering. While critics may view religion negatively, many people find it to be a source of meaning, community, and psychological well-being. Psychological and social science research indicates that religious people often report higher levels of happiness and effective coping mechanisms, and religion can provide important social support networks. 

That's a good AI argument. 😂

I never argued religions' impact on society, though. Religions have its cons and pros, so they are not necessarilly good overall.

However, I'd like to thank you for bringing that up. I have something to say about it.

You know, beliefs are fkn dangerous if they are debunked all of a sudden. Nobody thinks about the consequences if all these gullible people who believe in bullcrap end up finding out the truth behind their beliefs. I mention that because we're close to the declassification of the UFO files in the US that will reveal the actual identity of the biblical characters deemed as divine.

This is very funny to be honest because we can see Christians already in denial. They are saying, for instance, that these aliens are actual demons trying to deceive the pipol. That's fkn hillarous.

Pipol are still asleep. They can't see that religions are a way of mass control that still stand through false promises of a better life for the goods and a horrible eternal punishment for the not so goods.

I will never use the word pipol.

Oh bollocks.

I will never use the word pipol.

Oh bollocks.

What's wrong with it? Does it have another meaning in England? or maybe in Wales?

In Wales they say pobl.

I'm and Earthling sub-categorised as British by the way.

Welsh Earthlings are a sub-category of British Earthlings.

I do not fall into the Welsh sub-category.

Though I live on the western side of an indefinite fantasy line that sub-divides sub-categories.

I'm a Calvinist, so I was drawn by the Father. That's the theological answer, anyway.

The more situational answer is that I was exposed to Christianity from childhood. We weren't church going people, though, and religion wasn't really a big deal growing up. It was just the background assumption.

In my early 20's, I became somewhat agnostic after realizing I had no reason to think any of it was true. I still felt drawn to it, though, so I didn't stop calling myself a Christian.

But then one day I was thinking about the first and second laws of thermodynamics, which I had learned about in nuclear power school in the navy. While thinking about it, I realized they couldn't both be true. If the universe has always existing, and it's always been winding down, then it should've already reached thermodynamic equilibrium. There shouldn't be any stars or life. But here we are, which means either that the universe has NOT always been winding down, or it had a beginning. After stewing about that for a few days, not making the connection to God right away, it finally dawned on me that the creation idea in Christianity solves the problem nicely. The universe DID have a beginning and has been winding down ever since.

I stopped calling myself agnostic at that point, but it wasn't until a few years later that I read _The Case for Christ_ by Lee Strobel and thought, "By golly, the resurrection actually happened!" I was about as full blown Christian at that point as I could've been.

Yes, there are more religious people than non-believers globally. More than eight-in-ten people identify with a religious group, while about 16% to 24% are religiously unaffiliated. 

How would you count the people who identify as "spiritual but not religious"?

They should be seen as different and not counted as religious.

Spiritual but not religious" (SBNR) describes people who have a sense of personal connection to something larger than themselves and a search for meaning in life, but do not adhere to the doctrines or practices of an organized religion. For SBNRs, spirituality often involves individualistic practices like meditation, spending time in nature, and following their own intuition, rather than communal worship, scripture, or dogma. The phrase contrasts with "religious," which is often perceived as involving rigid, external rules and rituals

Who counts them.

And what are the criteria.

Baptism was, and still is to a lesser degree a social expectation. But does not necessarily render one religious.

And certain societies and individuals maintain cultural rituals only for the sake of maintaining cultural rituals and for the fun of the associated social gatherings...Doesn't necessarily make an individual religious.

Other societies use fear based methods of religious conformity....Doesn't necessarily make an individual religious.

Ticked boxes is ticked boxes.

I was atheist on debate.org. I hope I didnt make that argument.

Oh no, that certainly wasn’t you. He was too smart.

I don’t remember the person’s screen name. The resolution for the debate was “No one deserves to go to hell”, the instigator was trying to debate a theist by having the theist justify how anyone could be sent there. He started by listing all of the reasons no person could ever live an evil enough life to warrant eternal torture. The challenger came on and started off by accepting every argument the theist made, almost as if he was conceding the debate, then turned every argument against him by pointing out how the one who’s responsible for everything would then deserve the punishment he created, and that person is God himself.

It was a genius move. What caused it to change my position is the fact that it was the first time I ever really confronted just how silly of a concept hell was. Once I started to see it as silly rather than scary, it no longer had the power to stop me from applying the same critical thinking towards my religious views as anything else. And religion does not survive very well in that atmosphere.

What was your username on DDO?

Out of curiosity,

Why not take a different view as to what Hell was/entailed?

People have a lot of different views as to what Hell might be.

I could very easily alter my belief system to make it coherent, but that’s not an honest evaluation of reality, that’s just me picking and choosing what I want to believe then figuring out how to justify it.

I don’t remember the person’s screen name. The resolution for the debate was “No one deserves to go to hell”, the instigator was trying to debate a theist by having the theist justify how anyone could be sent there. He started by listing all of the reasons no person could ever live an evil enough life to warrant eternal torture. The challenger came on and started off by accepting every argument the theist made, almost as if he was conceding the debate, then turned every argument against him by pointing out how the one who’s responsible for everything would then deserve the punishment he created, and that person is God himself.

I am almost 99% certain I made that argument when I was there in 2019 or 2018. So again, I am sorry for turning you into atheist. I was a deluded atheist back then, and I dragged other people in that delusion too. I was destroying every Christian debater on debate.org back then, basically trapped them with "How do you logically decide what to believe in when there is equal proof for Santa, Christian God, Allah...ect. ?".

It wasnt that atheism was correct. But they were just terrible debaters so atheism looked correct. Again, I am so sorry for turning you into atheist if it was me who said that. I was on a lot of pills back then and atheism seemed fun to argue for.

Equal proof? Indeed, terrible atheism.