Read the book of revelation, even if it seems nonsensical

Started by melcharaz

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#1 •••

Why?

Revelation 1:1-3

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.


3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

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#2 •••

God didnt enable everyone to hear his word, so God is an idiot. Well, at least your God is. Mine is smart and evil.

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#3 •••
@SatanLucy

The idea that the Book of 

Revelation is a "mixed message" is a common perspective that arises from its complex nature, combining a message of hope and ultimate victory for believers with vivid, sometimes violent, imagery and warnings of judgement for its original Roman context and the broader world system. 

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#4 •••
@Debby

Yes, typical of the good triumphs over evil genre.





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#5 •••
@SatanLucy

Yes, John was the cute girly one...An obvious favourite in the boys club...With a penchant for fantasy novel writing.

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#6 •••

Revelation was hard for the Early Church to understand. This is why we need someone to explain what it means, not ourselves.

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#7 •••
@SergeantLynch

Not sure a “girly one” would write the most intense book of the Bible.

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#8 •••

Dont have to understand, just read, hear and keep.

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#9 •••
@SomeDebatePerson

It's as intense as you want it to be.


But absolutely no reason why effeminate blokes shouldn't have an intensely furtive imagination.

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#10 •••
@SergeantLynch

The Book of Revelation is difficult to understand 

due to its extensive use of symbolism and imagery, the unfamiliarity of its apocalyptic literary genre, and a lack of understanding of its first-century historical context. To better interpret it, it is helpful to understand that the author, Apostle John, used vivid metaphors rooted in the ancient world and the Old Testament to reveal spiritual realities, rather than writing a literal account of future events. 

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#11 •••
@Debby

There you have it Debby


In a nut shell.


Wasn't difficult at all.


Thank you.

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#12 •••
@SergeantLynch

The book of Revelations is an attempt to explain what the ending was going to because Jesus’s short 3 year ministry left many unanswered questions.

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#13 •••
@Debby

The end of what specifically, and when?

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#14 •••
@SergeantLynch

Yes, 

the Book of Revelation in the Bible is the final book of the New Testament, filled with symbolic visions and prophecies detailing the end timescosmic conflictGod's final judgment, and the triumphant return of Jesus Christ as King to establish His eternal kingdom and make all things new. It describes a period of intense tribulation, the rise of evil (the Beast/Antichrist), and ultimately Christ's victory over Satan, leading to a new heaven and new earth. 

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#15 •••
@Debby

Ah, so the end of the book.

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#16 •••
@SergeantLynch


The phrase "the book of Revelation does not end" reflects interpretations that see it as cyclical or about ongoing spiritual realities, not just a final apocalypse, focusing on renewal, Christ's victory over evil, and a new creation (New Jerusalem) rather than literal world destruction, with its symbolic visions of judgments leading to an eternal, restored paradise where God dwells with humanity, fulfilling creation's original purpose. It concludes with visions of a renewed heaven and earth and promises of Christ's return, suggesting an eternal state, not a cessation of existence, but a transformation. 

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#17 •••
@Debby

Yes, analogically universal.


The rise and fall of materialism, as it were.

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#18 •••
@SergeantLynch

It concludes with visions of a renewed heaven and earth and promises of Christ's return, suggesting an eternal state, not a cessation of existence, but a transformation. 

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#19 •••
@Debby

Yes, rise fall and re-initiation.


Is a sound hypothesis relative to materialism and perhaps the intervention of a GOD factor.


Biblical ideas were analogical but naive.

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#20 •••
@SergeantLynch

And also very inspiring. We have over 2 billion Christians who follow it.

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#21 •••
@Debby

Well 2 billion labels is as 2 billion labels do.


And who tallies the numbers, making certain that each one devoutly adheres to Christian ideology and ritual on a daily basis.


I too had water splashed on my head before I was 1 year of age, and probably went down as a tick in the Christian box.


So count me out for a start.

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#22 •••
@Debby
The Book of Revelation is difficult to understand


Not really.

Take away the images of "horsemen" and other guff and it simply speaks of a world in chaos in an age chaos. Which , dare I say it, we seem to be going through in our time.


At Matthew 24:3-14 Jesus makes it quit clear when a disciple askes: “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” New King James Version


And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 


For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 

For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.

 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 

10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 

11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 

12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 

13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


It matters not in my opinion, whether one chooses to believe the above was so called "prophesy", but I don't think that it can be denied that all the above mentioned are things that our world and its people are experiencing now, in our time in the 21st century and in our age.


It may be asked , well how did he \ Jesus know? the answer to that is simple: because it had happened before, in another age.


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#23 •••
@Stephen

You are quoting Matthew when the discussion is “ The Book of Revelation is difficult to understand.”

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#24 •••
@Debby

You are quoting Matthew when the discussion is “ The Book of Revelation is difficult to understand.”


Yes I know perfectly well I'm quoting from Mathews gospel. But you seem to have missed my reason for doing so. i.e. Jesus' words in Mathew appear to bolster those words in revelation. That is to say that they support or strengthen what is written.

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#25 •••
@Stephen


The Book of Revelation is hard to understand due to its dense, bizarre symbolism (beasts, dragons, etc.) rooted in ancient Hebrew & Greco-Roman culture, making its images unclear to modern readers; its "apocalyptic genre" style uses dramatic visions and snapshots rather than linear storytelling; and its historical context (persecuted first-century Christians) requires specialized knowledge, leading many to misinterpret it as literal end-times prophecy instead of its intended message of hope and God's ultimate victory through faithfulness, say Bible Project

Key Reasons for Difficulty:

  1. Symbolic & Metaphorical Language: It's rich with strange creatures (beasts, dragons), numbers (7, 12), and cosmic events that aren't meant to be read literally, but as powerful symbols understood in their original cultural context, notes The Bible Project.
  2. Apocalyptic Genre: It's a visionary, prophetic style using dramatic, often frightening, "unveilings" (the meaning of "revelation") and "snapshots" of spiritual realities, not a straightforward historical or future-predicting narrative, explains Bible Project.
  3. Historical Context is Key: The original audience understood references to Rome (the "beast"), persecution, and specific churches in Asia Minor, which are lost on modern readers without study, say Bible Project and Medium.
  4. Misapplication to Modern Times: Attempts to decode it as a precise timeline for our future events often obscure the original message of persevering in faith during hardship, say Bible Project and Medium.
  5. Unfamiliarity with its "Visual Vocabulary": Like political cartoons, its imagery relies on shared cultural symbols (like those on coins, temples) that we no longer inherently understand, says YouTube

How to Approach It:

  1. Study the symbols within their first-century setting.
  2. Understand the genre of apocalyptic literature.
  3. Focus on themes of hope, faithfulness, and Christ's ultimate victory over evil, rather than just predicting events. 


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#26 •••

You ae simply repeating yourself now.


Revelation is not "difficult to understand£ once you have read the warnings in Mathew , as Mathew is the same warning as revelation with the imagery and symbolism removed , as I already explained to you, twice!

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#27 •••
@Stephen

It has been explained to you why the Book of Revelations is difficult to understand. It tries to summarize prophesies from other parts of the Bible like Matthew. But it is written in a cryptic symbolic way.


The Book of Revelation is hard to understand because it's packed with dense symbolism, apocalyptic imagery, and metaphors from Jewish & Greco-Roman culture, written in a unique literary style that's unfamiliar today, and deals with complex themes of prophecy and spiritual warfare, requiring readers to understand its historical context (persecuted Christians under Rome) and a non-literal reading approach to grasp its message of hope rather than just bizarre visions

Key Reasons for Difficulty:

  1. Symbolic Language & Imagery: It uses vivid, strange creatures (beasts, dragons), numbers (7, 12), and cosmic events, which were common symbols in ancient times but need context for modern readers.
  2. Apocalyptic Genre: It's written in the style of apocalyptic literature, which uses symbolic visions, dreams, and coded language to reveal hidden realities to persecuted people, not always meant to be read literally like a history book.
  3. Cultural & Historical Context: The symbols (like the Lamb, the Dragon, Babylon) had specific meanings for first-century Christians facing Roman oppression, which isn't obvious now.
  4. Literary Style: It mixes genres (letter, prophecy, vision) and presents time in non-linear "snapshots," making chronological understanding challenging.
  5. Misinterpretation & Literalism: Many get lost trying to literally map every symbol to future events, missing the main themes of God's sovereignty and faithfulness amidst suffering. 

How to Approach It:

  1. Read for the Main Idea: Focus on the overarching message of hope, perseverance, and Christ's ultimate victory.
  2. Understand the Genre: Recognize it as apocalyptic literature, not a modern novel or prophecy report.
  3. Study the Context: Learn about 1st-century Roman persecution and Old Testament background.
  4. Don't Take it All Literally: Treat the symbols as metaphors for spiritual truths. 


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#28 •••
@Debby

It has been explained to you why the Book of Revelations is difficult to understand. 


I have a countered that simply by telling you it isn't hard to understand. By showing you that Jesus in Mathew's gospel actually spells it out without the imagery and symbolism and in language that even you should be capable of understanding?

Revelation speaks of what is to come and what will happen and what it will actually be like at the end of the Age , while Jesus himself in Mathews gospel tells of the signs - " the birth pains" that show will show that the end of the age is near .


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#29 •••
@Stephen

No, the Book of Revelation was not designed to be simple reading in the modern sense of the term

. While it promises a blessing to those who read and hear its message, its complex use of symbolism, imagery, and historical context makes it one of the most challenging books of the Bible to interpret for contemporary readers. 

Key factors contributing to its complexity include:

  1. Apocalyptic Genre: Revelation belongs to the genre of apocalyptic literature, which was common in the first century but is largely unfamiliar to modern readers. This genre frequently uses vivid, often bizarre, imagery (e.g., multi-headed beasts, dragons) to convey profound theological and socio-political messages.
  2. Symbolism and Allusion: The book is rich in symbols (numbers, colors, creatures) that had specific and clear meanings for its original first-century audience, many of which are lost today without specialized knowledge. The text also heavily alludes to the Old Testament, particularly Daniel, Ezekiel, and Isaiah, requiring a solid understanding of those texts to grasp John's full meaning.
  3. Coded Language: Written during a time of intense Christian persecution under the Roman Empire, the author, John of Patmos, used coded language and metaphors to communicate his message of hope and resistance without attracting further scrutiny from persecutors.
  4. Multiple Layers of Meaning: The imagery and signs often possess dual or multiple meanings, referring to historical events of the first century while also pointing to future eschatological realities (end times). 

For its original audience, many of these images and references would have been immediately understandable within their cultural and political context. For modern readers, however, the book requires diligent study and an understanding of its historical and literary context to navigate its complexities and uncover its intended message of God's ultimate victory and a call to faithful living. 


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#30 •••
@Debby
No, the Book of Revelation was not designed to be simple reading in the modern sense of the term
. While it promises a blessing to those who read and hear its message, its complex use of symbolism, imagery, and historical context makes it one of the most challenging books of the Bible to interpret for contemporary readers. 
Key factors contributing to its complexity include:


And I have explained a few times now that it isn't difficult to understand. Jesus explained what was to come without the imagery and symbolism In Matthews gospel. He knew this simply because it had happened before - twice before - in fact . He'd been taught that at certain points in the history of mankind that there comes a transfer of power, and a transfer of power was happening in his own time he knew this simply because he understood the time and signs of the Age. The one he was experiencing and living in.

You really aught to read and pay attention to your bible a little closer.


You are entitled to stay on your merry-go -round but I shall get off now.







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