In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul states that Jesus first appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve and after that, He appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all He appeared to Paul.

The question becomes, why does Paul's statement conflict with the Gospels, what about Mary Magdalene, the Gospels say He first appeared to Mary Magdalene and another woman also named Mary. Paul said He first appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve, but assuming by the Twelve he meant all the Apostles, but Judas was already dead, so it could not have been twelve, it would have been eleven.

Also, he speaks of Jesus' appearances in a certain order, ending with Paul, but he makes no other distinction as to how He appeared, and we know he appeared to Paul in a vision rather than in bodily form, is he then saying that all of these appearances were visions. Judging by Paul's testimony in 1 Corinthians 15, Paul seems to be speaking of a spiritual resurrection rather than a bodily resurrection.

“The word 'God' is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change this.”

― Albert Einstein

Thanks for sharing that, Rainman.

BTW, why do you think Ernest Borgnine lived to be 95.

Tales abound.

Perhaps Jesus appeared to only 487 and Paul just rounded it up.

Or 513, and just rounded it down.

Or maybe Jesus didn't appear to anyone and Paul just made it up.

Nonetheless, mass hysteria being what it is.

So, Yeahhhhhhhh Jesus and happy hands, is to be expected from time to time.

Like Yeahhhhhhhh the Virgin Mary, lets build a multi-billion dollar shrine, pilgrimage, healing and gift shop empire.

Rise from thy mobility scooter and walk you lazy bastards.

I digress.

# **Paul’s Claim: Jesus Appeared to 500 Witnesses**

Paul was a self confessed liar he lied to further the cause. ... there again, Jesus told a few porkies himself.

For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? Romans 3:7

Yes, logical deduction leads us to conclude that Jesus was gay and his boyfriend was John.

Having ones feet anointed is just aromatherapy, and the sort of thing radical housewives do because it's cool.

Celibacy is always a lie, just ask those RC dudes.

Yes, the Apostle Paul mentions Jesus appeared to more than 500 people at one time, stating that most were still alive when he wrote 1 Corinthians, offering them as living witnesses to the resurrection. While the Gospels don't detail this specific large gathering, historians and theologians suggest it likely happened in Galilee, potentially at a large outdoor event like the Ascension, and serves as significant early evidence for Jesus's resurrection. 

Do we know their names?

Yes, the Apostle Paul mentions Jesus appeared to more than 500 people at one time, stating that most were still alive when he wrote 1 Corinthians, offering them as living witnesses to the resurrection. While the Gospels don't detail this specific large gathering, historians and theologians suggest it likely happened in Galilee, potentially at a large outdoor event like the Ascension, and serves as significant early evidence for Jesus's resurrection. 

As mentioned above.#6. Paul was a self confessed liar- for the cause.

offering them as living witnesses to the resurrection.

Well that's not quite true is it? 1 Corinthians 15:3-6, offers nothing but what Paul has to say: hearsay at best, and lies at worst. And without any independent corroboration, leaving Paul's testimony without any value and pointless in fact its a a testimony that wouldn't stand up in any court at the time or now.

Critical scholars agree disciples had experiences of Jesus appearing, with 1 Corinthians 15 listing eyewitnesses, and disciples claiming to have seen the risen ..

Critical scholars agree disciples had experiences of Jesus appearing

Which scholars?

Yes, logical deduction leads us to conclude that Jesus was gay and his boyfriend was John.

In his seminal book The Quest of the Historical Jesus, Albert Schweitzer pointed out how the image of Jesus image had changed to reflect the times and the personal proclivities of the various authors that had addressed the subject. He wrote that looking for a human Jesus is like looking down a well. "You’re inclined to see your own reflection in the water." Schweitzer showed explicitly that people use the gospels as a mirror for their own beliefs, projecting their own values onto the subject and in the end, reconstructing Jesus in their own self-images.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. - Jerry Seinfeld.

For sure, such is why the Anglicised version became a west coast wizardy rock star type.

And JW's see him as a corporate dude in a slick suit and tie.

In reality, God would have worn a close fitting yet very comfortable, synthetic, Star Trek style outfit, and resembled a Vogon perhaps.

And yes, and in all seriousness, man obviously created a God in mans own image, and composed an appropriate narrative to go with it.

Well, it might have been appropriate a few thousand years ago...Though some people do still like to think that two wallabies once lived together on a gigantic Middle Eastern floating zoo.

Which scholars?

Yes, most critical scholars agree that disciples had intense experiences they interpreted as appearances of the risen Jesus, even if they explain them differently (visions, epiphanies, subjective states) rather than a literal bodily return, with key names including 

Gerd Lüdemann, Bart Ehrman, Helmut Koester, Larry Hurtado, Gerd Lüdemann, and the Jesus Seminar. These scholars affirm the disciples' conviction and experiences as historical facts, though their interpretations vary from psychological phenomena (hallucinations, grief visions) to genuine, albeit non-physical, divine encounters, forming the basis for early Christian faith. 

Scholars who acknowledge these experiences:

1. Gerd Lüdemann: An atheist scholar who argues for the historical certainty of Peter and the disciples having experiences where Jesus appeared as the risen Christ, even if he attributes them to subjective phenomena like "religious intoxication" or hallucinations.
2. Bart Ehrman: Acknowledges it's "undisputable that some of the followers of Jesus came to think that he had been raised from the dead," emphasizing the reality of their conviction, notes Evidence Unseen and The Bart Ehrman Blog.
3. Helmut Koester & Larry Hurtado: Key figures in proposing and developing vision theories, suggesting these were subjective visionary experiences or epiphanies.
4. Jesus Seminar: Members like Lüdemann have proposed variations of the vision theory, explaining these as internal experiences.
5. Reginald Fuller: Refers to the disciples' belief as an "indisputable fact of history" stemming from "real experiences, characterized as appearances or visions". 

Key Points of Agreement:

1. Subjective Reality: Scholars agree the disciples themselves sincerely experienced something that convinced them Jesus was alive.
2. Basis for Faith: These experiences were central to the disciples' transformation and the early Church's message.
3. Varying Explanations: While agreeing on the occurrence of these powerful experiences, scholars diverge on their cause, with some favoring naturalistic (visions, hallucinations) and others supernatural explanations. 

Debby wrote: Critical scholars agree disciples had experiences of Jesus appearing

Stephen wrote: Which scholars?

Gerd Lüdemann, Bart Ehrman, Helmut Koester, Larry Hurtado, Gerd Lüdemann, and the Jesus Seminar. These scholars affirm the disciples' conviction and experiences as historical facts, though their interpretations vary from psychological phenomena (hallucinations, grief visions) to genuine, albeit non-physical, divine encounters, forming the basis for early Christian faith. 

Ok I'll indulge You.

Gerd Lüdemann.

Gerd Lüdemann, only spoke of Peters proclaimed "vision" in the same vein as Saul/Paul claimed to have a "vision" on the road to Damascus, Which if you have read for yourself is another contradictory mess.

Lüdemann was a born again Christian by conversion at a mission of his home town, in May 1963, but eventually he lost his faith.

Incidently, Ludmann has a book out titled: The resurrection of Christ in which he states with compelling evidence: " the resurrection was not a historical event and further argues that this development leaves little, if any, basis for Christian faith as presently defined.

https://www.eden.co.uk/christian-books/theology-books/christology/the-resurrection-of-christ/

Bart Ehrman.

I happen to like his work. He too has much to criticize about the New Testament he too lost his faith telling his readers "the problem of suffering became for me the problem of faith"  and has said, "I no longer go to church, no longer believe, no longer consider myself a Christian". In a 2008 interview he said, "I simply didn't believe that there was a God of any sort". He's an agnostic.

I could go on ,and will if I must or if you insist. But your " scholars" do not add up to much in the way of proof or evidence of a resurrection and you really should research your claims before quoting from others that you happen to believe support your claim/s. Especially when they appear to support evidence to the contrary.

I could provide much the same as you from other "Scholars" including high serving Nuns and Priests that claim not only was there no resurrection but that Jesus didn't even die on the cross!. Which I happen also to believe and was more likely the case

Here is an update to the scholars who believe in the resurrection.

Many scholars, including prominent New Testament experts, accept key historical elements pointing to Jesus' resurrection (empty tomb, post-mortem appearances, early belief), though they differ on 

how to interpret these facts, with some affirming a physical resurrection (William Lane Craig, Gary Habermas, N.T. Wright) and others offering naturalistic explanations (Bart Ehrman, who agrees on early beliefs but not the event itself). Major names supporting historicity include Dale Allison, Richard Swinburne, and James D.G. Dunn, while skeptics like Ehrman focus on the experience of the first followers. 

Scholars Affirming Key Facts &/or the Resurrection:

1. William Lane Craig & Gary Habermas: Leading proponents arguing the resurrection is the best explanation for historical evidence, citing facts like the empty tomb and post-death appearances.
2. N.T. Wright: Believes the evidence warrants belief in the empty tomb and appearances, inviting readers to see if the Christian worldview best explains them.
3. Dale Allison: Argues for the empty tomb and visions, accepting the resurrection's historicity.
4. James D.G. Dunn: States the majority of scholars find the resurrection historical.
5. Richard Swinburne: Considers the resurrection highly probable based on evidence.
6. Michael Licona: Argues for the resurrection as the best explanation for the data. 

Scholars Acknowledging Early Belief (But Not Necessarily the Event):

1. Bart Ehrman: A prominent skeptic who agrees that the earliest followers believed they saw Jesus resurrected, though he attributes this to visions, not a physical event. 

Key Points of Agreement (Even Among Skeptics):

1. Empty Tomb: Many scholars accept the tomb was found empty.
2. Post-Mortem Appearances: Most agree Jesus' followers experienced appearances of the risen Christ.
3. Early Christian Belief: The resurrection was central to the earliest Christian preaching. 

While a unified consensus on the supernatural event doesn't exist, significant scholarly support accepts the core historical data as pointing towards a resurrection, even if interpretations of how it happened vary widely. 

Key Points of Agreement (Even Among Skeptics):

Empty Tomb: Many scholars accept the tomb was found empty.

And empty tomb is only evidence that a tomb was said to have been found empty.... if any of the Jesus story is to be believed.

Post-Mortem Appearances: Most agree Jesus' followers experienced appearances of the risen Christ.

And many Scholars of theology agree on the opposite believing the, so called, resurrection of Jesus was nothing more than a rehash story of the ancient Egyptian Osiris myth. And there are other "Scholars" that point us to the ancient myths of many dying and rising gods before the Jesus era. And about as many "Virgin births" and sons of god too.

Early Christian Belief: The resurrection was central to the earliest Christian preaching. 

I agree , but does it make the Jesus resurrection story anymore genuine and believable than all those resurrection stories that came before?

Only a return of Jesus will confirm his resurrection. jesus was too poor to afford a tomb so he was buried in an empty tomb.

Only a return of Jesus will confirm his resurrection.

It will. But that leaves the question of identity, doesn't it? How will you know it is he , the same person from the 1st century A.D. ?

In Christian theology, the return of Jesus (the Second Coming) will be a public, glorious event accompanied by cosmic signs and the gathering of believers

. While His first coming was marked by numerous miracles to validate his identity and message, the return is primarily depicted as an act of judgment and the establishment of his kingdom, with its own unique signs, rather than a series of individual miracles like those performed during his earthly ministry. 

Debby wrote:Only a return of Jesus will confirm his resurrection.

Stephen wrote: It will. But that leaves the question of identity, doesn't it? How will you know it is he , the same person from the 1st century A.D. ?

Debby wrote: In Christian theology, the return of Jesus (the Second Coming) will be a public, glorious event accompanied by cosmic signs and the gathering of believers

. While His first coming was marked by numerous miracles to validate his identity and message, the return is primarily depicted as an act of judgment and the establishment of his kingdom, with its own unique signs, rather than a series of individual miracles like those performed during his earthly ministry. 

But how will YOU know? And wouldn't it be a third coming considering that also " in Christian theology" AND the bible, Jesus had already come back after the his crucifixion?

That was his resurrection. His return will be from heaven.

Jesus's return, or Second Coming, will be marked by 

several dramatic and unmistakable events, according to various Christian beliefs and biblical passages. It will be a public, visible, and global event, described as the "blessed hope" for believers and a time of judgment for the wicked. 

Key biblical signs and events surrounding Jesus's return include:

1. Cosmic Disturbances The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and stars will fall from the sky.
2. A Visible and Universal Appearance Jesus will appear in the clouds with great power and glory, visible to "every eye". The event is compared to lightning flashing across the whole sky, so it cannot be missed or mistaken for a secret event.
3. Loud Proclamations His arrival will be accompanied by a shout of command, the voice of an archangel, and the loud sound of the trumpet of God.
4. The Resurrection and Gathering of Believers The dead in Christ will rise first, and then living believers will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord.
5. Judgment and Vengeance Jesus will return as a judge and victorious warrior, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and rewarding those who have followed him.
6. The Establishment of His Kingdom His return will mark the beginning of his reign on earth, leading to a new heaven and new earth where righteousness dwells. 

The New Testament emphasizes that while we can look for these signs, no one knows the exact "day or hour" of His return, and believers are exhorted to be ready and watchful at all times. 

The New Testament emphasizes that while we can look for these signs, no one knows the exact "day or hour" of His return,

I know. It's amazing isn't' it? Not even Jesus, he that Christians believe is also God the creator of the heavens and the earth doesn't know what he's about to do next. Or does this fact point to the evidence that Jesus simply cannot also be god?

Good transferred power to Jesus gradually. As Jesus grew more powerful he became God.

Jesus didn't know the exact hour and day of the end times because, as the 

Christian Post article notes, He voluntarily limited His divine knowledge during His earthly human life as part of His submission to God the Father, focusing on His mission and modeling true humanity and trust for believers. This concept, known as the "kenosis" or "self-emptying," highlights that He chose to experience human limitations, including uncertainty, rather than exploiting His divinity, but this doesn't mean He lost His divine omniscience forever; He fully knows now, post-resurrection. 

Key reasons for Jesus' limited knowledge on Earth:

1. Voluntary Limitation (Kenosis): Jesus, while fully God, chose to set aside the independent use of some divine attributes, like omniscience (all-knowing), to fully experience humanity, as described in Philippians 2:6-8.
2. Humility & Submission: His not knowing was a demonstration of His submission to the Father's will and His role as the obedient Son, as seen in John 5:19 and John 6:38.
3. Modeling Trust: By not knowing, Jesus teaches humanity to live by faith, be alert, and focus on God's will rather than specific future dates, encouraging a sense of urgency and readiness.
4. Focus on His Mission: This limitation allowed Him to face human challenges like anxiety and uncertainty, making His earthly life authentic and relatable. 

What the Bible says:

1. In Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32, Jesus states, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". 

Modern interpretations:

1. Some Orthodox traditions suggest that Jesus might not have revealed the hour, rather than being truly ignorant, but the core idea remains His voluntary restraint.
2. The inability to know the day or hour was a common Jewish idiom (related to the uncertain timing of the Jewish New Year festival, Yom Teruah), which Jesus used to convey that the time is unpredictable and always near. 

1. In Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32, Jesus states, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". 
2. 
   

Proving once again that Jesus is not god as I have claimed and stated in my Jesus Is Not God thread Here>>>https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/iw/jesus-is-not-god

What proves that Jesus is God?

Proof that Jesus is God, from a Christian perspective, comes from biblical accounts highlighting his divine claims (like "I AM" and "I and the Father are one"), acceptance of worship (e.g., by Thomas and disciples), fulfillment of prophecy, recorded miracles, and his unique identity as God in human form, forming the Trinity with the Father and Holy Spirit, supported by apostolic writings and early church doctrine. 

Biblical Claims & Identity

1. "I AM" Statements: 
2. Jesus' use of "I AM" (e.g., John 8:58, "Before Abraham was, I AM") directly echoes God's revelation to Moses (Exodus 3:14), a claim his audience understood as blasphemy, leading to attempts to stone Him. 
3. 
   
4. Unity with the Father: 
5. Declaring "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30) further solidified his claim to divinity, according to this Reddit post and this YouTube video. 
6. 
   
7. Title of "God": 
8. The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God," which Jesus affirms (John 20:28). 
9. 
   

Actions & Miracles

1. Forgiveness of Sins: 
2. Jesus' ability to forgive sins, a power attributed only to God, demonstrated his divine authority, says this YouTube video. 
3. 
   
4. Acceptance of Worship: 
5. He accepted worship (Matthew 14:33) and teachings like Philippians 2:6-11 affirm that all creation should worship Him as God. 
6. 
   
7. Miracles: 
8. His recorded miracles (healing, controlling nature, raising the dead) are seen as works of God, backing up His claims, according to this Reddit post and Going Farther. 
9. 
   

Old Testament Connection

1. Fulfilled Prophecy: 
2. His life, death, and resurrection are viewed as the fulfillment of numerous Old Testament prophecies, proving He is the promised Messiah. 
3. 
   
4. "Son of Man": 
5. Jesus' identification with the "Son of Man" in Daniel 7, a figure coming on clouds to God, links him to divine judgment and presence, according to this YouTube video. 
6. 
   

Apostolic Teachings & Trinity

1. Apostolic Formula: 
2. Paul and Peter refer to Jesus as "God and Savior," placing Him on equal standing with God the Father. 
3. 
   
4. Trinity: 
5. Christian theology holds that Jesus is God in human flesh, co-eternal with God the Father and the Holy Spirit, sharing one divine nature.