Should Christians Condemn People?

What do you mean condemn?

If the Christians 'believe in Hell, and think people are in danger of ending up there in the afterlife, depending on who they are in life.

Then I suppose it could make sense for Christians to warn people they might end up in Hell (From certain Christian perspectives).

Or point people out as examples of behaviors that land one in Hell, or endanger others to Hell.

'Ideally, for Hell believers, I suppose the motivation is trying to protect and save people.

Less ideally, it'd be sneering down at others.

. . .

I'm not well read on the Bible,

But I'm an Atheist anyway, I'd rather take away Hell as a metaphor.

People who live in selfish, cruel ways, often end up alone and in pain on Earth, never mind the afterlife.

Those who bully are often isolated and alone, if not bullied themselves in turn, should they 'lose power.

Lot of selfish behavior ends up self harmful,

Lot of behavior becomes difficult to 'break, the longer and deeper one digs the groove of that behavior.

End up with self destructive lifestyles, estranged from any friends or family.

Hard to change, and then one feels 'stuck in a Hell.

By “condemn” I mean telling someone “You are going to Hell.”

People who live in selfish, cruel ways, often end up alone and in pain on Earth, never mind the afterlife.

Those who bully are often isolated and alone, if not bullied themselves in turn, should they 'lose power.

Lot of selfish behavior ends up self harmful,

Lot of behavior becomes difficult to 'break, the longer and deeper one digs the groove of that behavior.

End up with self destructive lifestyles, estranged from any friends or family.

Hard to change, and then one feels 'stuck in a Hell.

Hell is a lot worse than all of that because on this Earth the concept of redemption is still present no matter the situation. In Hell, it is eternal pain and suffering without end. 

I'd imagine people vary, on what they think Hell is.

. . .

I'd say another consideration is expected outcomes.

Sure Christians may want to save people,

But will telling people they will go to Hell, the best outcome that can be achieved?

Well, depends on the method maybe,

I'd imagine there are many ways of talking about Hell to people.

And many possible reactions, depending on who one is talking to.

. . .

I'm pretty stuck with my perspective on 'worldly ramifications though.

It's Christian doctrine pretty much across the board that nobody is worthy of heaven, and ‘there but for the grace of God go I’, so it's bad to say of any person ‘you are going to hell’. The only person who is canonically in hell, as far as I know, is Judas.

However, telling someone what kind of behavior is sinful, and that sin is what leads us to hell, is a Christian duty. You just have to not always look for fault in others, criticize the sin itself in the hope that they reform.

I'd say another consideration is expected outcomes.

Sure Christians may want to save people,

But will telling people they will go to Hell, the best outcome that can be achieved?

 

Well, depends on the method maybe,

I'd imagine there are many ways of talking about Hell to people.

And many possible reactions, depending on who one is talking to.

Yeah, there are different ways to discuss Hell and the prerequisites for entering it, but I don't think anyone should assume any specific person of going to Hell. That is not for them to know or assume. They can't know, and it is wrongfully accusatory. Wrong in that it's inappropriate as a Christian to condemn someone in that way. I personally think there are more people in Heaven and going to Heaven than one would presumably think, but it is a theory that needs working on from me. 

Sure Christians may want to save people,

Unfortunately this is a misunderstanding that even Christians make for their duty. Christians don't save anyone. That is an act of grace from God. Christians can only spread the Word and remain resolute that the Holy Spirit will do its work. We are not meant to do the saving. 

I bring this up because the mindset a Christian can have that is one of being the Savior can make them be too over the top in their spiritual statements and judgements of other people. They are asserting a position of authority that is not theirs, and this can make one conceited and too aggressive in speech. 

Example is: one guy says to another “You are going to Hell if you don't follow my religion.” He positions Christianity as something of his that others need to submit to, which is the wrong intention. 

@RexFavilla, Skipper

Hm, I 'have heard that one before.

Berean Standard Bible
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-8.htm

It's a very less than egotistical way of looking at it.

. . . But there's also verses such as The Parable of the Talents, holding individuals accountable for their choices, efforts, and work.

I prefer pride, myself, ego and awareness of what one is.

Even if life is chance, and we merely came about to what we are.

I find it difficult to live 'practically otherwise.

Berean Standard Bible
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

https://biblehub.com/romans/6-23.htm

Berean Standard Bible
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him. “For all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

https://biblehub.com/matthew/26-52.htm

In verses such as the above, I see in what 'we do, and resultant actions.

Though I suppose for many people, in the 'end it all comes back to God.

The Rich Young Man
(Matthew 19:16–30; Luke 18:18–30)
17As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up and knelt before Him. “Good Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. 19You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not cheat others, honor your father and mother.”
20“Teacher,” he replied, “all these I have kept from my youth.”
21Jesus looked at him, loved him, and said to him, “There is one thing you lack: Go, sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me”
22But the man was saddened by these words and went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”
24And the disciples were amazed at His words.
But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
26They were even more astonished and said to one another, “Who then can be saved?”
27Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”
28Peter began to say to Him, “Look, we have left everything and followed You.”
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for My sake and for the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundredfold in the present age—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and fields, along with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.”

https://biblehub.com/bsb/mark/10.htm

Hm, I 'have heard that one before.

 

Berean Standard Bible
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-8.htm

 

It's a very less than egotistical way of looking at it.

. . . But there's also verses such as The Parable of the Talents, holding individuals accountable for their choices, efforts, and work.

This is because your faith is revealed through works. A great saint will make virtuous choices and will do holy works. A good tree bears good fruit, and evil tree bears evil fruit. Good works are the necessary consequence of faith, and that is the rubric which Christ gives to measure that faith which brings salvation.

And yet, I can imagine people of great faith failing in this world.

A person with strong faith can lack ability,
A person with no faith can have ability.

Though I admit faith can have 'an effect.

Berean Standard Bible
"The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion."
https://biblehub.com/proverbs/28-1.htm
 

A person who believes their action right, sleeps better, sees the world better, steps with more confidence.

Dunning–Kruger effect and pitfalls aside, confidence is a fine ability enhancer.

. . .

But I suppose faith does not need 'succeed, per your post.

One's faith is merely 'shown in the actions they choose.

As Job chose not to curse God.

Berean Standard Bible
Then Job’s wife said to him, “Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God and die!”
Though I admit faith can have an 'amount of effect on people,
https://biblehub.com/job/2-9.htm

Berean Standard Bible
“You speak as a foolish woman speaks,” he told her. “Should we accept from God only good and not adversity?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.
https://biblehub.com/job/2-10.htm

Good fruits =/= great fruits. A humble man who refuses to recant his faith in the face of persecution and dies for it, a simple hermit who contemplates God, or a blasphemous whore who repents and wanders in the desert to atone, all of these have become saints alongside great bishops and theologians, which is the highest accomplishment in Christendom. None of these ‘good fruits’ required great skill, ability, or intelligence. I think one of the ugliest aspects of modern society, and one of the main drivers of the Dunning-Kruger effect, is the conflation of intelligence/ability with ‘goodness’. Intelligent, competent people can do far more harm if they have evil intent, while even the simplest man or woman can bring good into the world if they have good character. Furthermore, the idea that intelligent people are 'better' drives many to strive for higher intelligence, a trait which is largely heritable and, when faked, just leads to a not-intelligent person being unable to recognize their own limits. People should strive for good character, as character is much more malleable and, imo, important.

To append scripture:

'5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.

8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.'

Jeremiah 17:5-10

while even the simplest man or woman can bring good into the world if they have good character

While true that dumb people can do good things, the main problem is that to determine what is good requires high intelligence which dumb people dont have. So a dumb person can do good accidentally, but not willingly, due to lack of knowledge. Likewise, dumb person is much easier manipulated into doing evil while thinking he is doing good. The only reason why evil and intelligent people can do as much harm as they can is because they can manipulate dumb people very easily. Being dumber makes person more likely to be manipulated, less likely to know what good is, and doesnt make person any better person. So being dumb isnt exactly desirable in this case.

Well stated.

Does empathy require such high intelligence?

Ideas such understanding others feel pain, that we should be kind, help, and not harm?

(Well, such are the common themes of what many call good)

I don't think RexFavilla's argument is that being stupid is good,

But that intelligence and ability are not good/morality in themselves, but tools.

They are not the end goal, not the guiding star.

If one gains intelligence or strength, without acquiring goodness, what is produced but evil?

Goodness then, ought be something one always keeps in mind, regardless of strength.

. . .

Course some people don't believe in objective morality,

And one could argue that game theory and recognition of the profits of ‘acting good, and the harms of ’acting evil. Can have a large effect on society.

. . . Norms and laws are placed by the strong,

But if strength is what is valued highest,

Then rotting people rot the structure, and norms and laws of advantages do not reach the people.

. . .

Balancing act I suppose, when using people.

Ability is a tool, and one 'wants society to be improved, if a Good person with intelligence cannot be found, I suppose an Evil one can do at times.

But such always has the danger of ‘rot I’d expect, corruption that can spread.

While true that dumb people can do good things, the main problem is that to determine what is good requires high intelligence which dumb people dont have. So a dumb person can do good accidentally, but not willingly, due to lack of knowledge. Likewise, dumb person is much easier manipulated into doing evil while thinking he is doing good. The only reason why evil and intelligent people can do as much harm as they can is because they can manipulate dumb people very easily. Being dumber makes person more likely to be manipulated, less likely to know what good is, and doesnt make person any better person. So being dumb isnt exactly desirable in this case.

No it doesn't. To mistake good for evil requires high intelligence, because higher intelligence allows one to rationalize more absurd things to oneself. Look at something like foot binding in China. All the most educated, intelligent people rationalized it, saw it as aesthetically superior, as a logical and reasonable thing to do to a young girl. The young girl being subjected to it, even a not really bright one, who spoke up and said the simple truth - ‘this hurts and I don’t want to do it' - understands good much better than the legions of scholars, doctors, and courtiers who have managed to twist their logic to praise something so plainly barbaric. There's a reason why a child is the one to point out that the emperor is naked in the classic story - all the creme de la creme have successfully reasoned themselves into believing the absurd. I'd say that the capacity of the intelligence to manipulate themselves, to rationalize evil to themselves, is far more responsible for their outsized ‘evil footprint’ than the ability to ‘manipulate stupid people’. Most simple people, for example, see a pedophile and simply say: ‘throw them in the woodchipper.’ Attempts at manipulation are fruitless, they are rejected out of hand. It's only the perversely intelligent who can rationalize something like that away.

Again, you are repeating a lie that dumb people are less likely to be evil, or that they are more right about what is good, which isnt even close to truth and no data supports it. Dumb people in China did those horrible things and thought it was good, just like they ate dogs burned alive.

Intelligence is such that we have become in the main, conscious conceptualists that coexist in a contrived fantasy world, where rules are made and rules will inevitably be ignored.

Are you arguing that moral Relativism/Nihilism is technically correct,

But that individual humans due to their nature, create and follow Moral systems as if they were Objective?

I think people ‘will ignore rules at time, if they’ve reason enough, or chance to avoid being caught.

Some say the chance of being caught is a vastly more effective deterrent than even draconian punishment.

But arguably investigation and monitoring of locations has 'vastly improved over time with technology.

Though I wonder how crime rates have varied through history.

Or during moments such as overpopulation among humans.

As I see it, crime is a concept relative to non-crime, and the reality is that humans are programmed survivalists and do what it takes to survive.

So moral relativism is inevitably the status quo, until such times when the human genome is reengineered.

And the current genome is packed with purpose…Nihilism is simply a concept relative to our ability to conceptualise.

And those doing the effective monitoring, catching and punishing are all subject to the same set of conditions.

Being myself an incurable agnostic, I've been a lot of times condemned by this kind of religious people, not necesarily to hell but to other kind of misfortunes, like getting sick or miserably poor. That just shows there is something wrong with some people of this religion or any other.

Plus, this kind of behaviour is contrary to what Christianity teaches, which is love. If someone condemns you to hell it shows that this person hates you and wish you bad, so it's better to stay away from these people.

Yes. According to the book, the true Christian, or specifically holiness folks can read the book where it says they are condemned already thus condemning them.

Do you believe the bible condemns people?

For sure, in a fantasy world anything is possible.

So christians that read where it condemns people should be what christians do to condemn because they're just giving you what the book says.

In any kind world you want, makes no difference being your reality is filled with condemnation.

Do you believe the bible condemns people?

I don't know, I'm not a bible expert. 

I'm just here to address the OP's comment.

Sorry, but your previous comment wasn't coherent.

What were your trying to ask or say?

Christians should not condemn the world, they are very much a part of it. Instead they should help their God to make it a better place for everyone.

Yes. According to the book, the true Christian, or specifically holiness folks can read the book where it says they are condemned already thus condemning them.

You believe people should say to others "You are going to Hell"? How is that helpful; how could the person even determine that? It's not right of them to say because they do not have the knowledge or the authority.

Do you believe christians read the bible?

Simple. Do you believe the bible condemns people?