Simple Conditional argument for God | Forum

#1

P1. Existence can only be conditional or unconditional

P2. If existence is unconditional, then everything exists, including God.

P3. If existence is conditional, conditions for existence are essentially same as God in power, thus God

C. God exists in both possible cases.

Conditional existence talks of "existing only if some condition happens"

Unconditional existence talks of "existing independently of any if conditions"

Because 3rd option doesnt exist, any individual thing can only have its "existence" dependent on some condition, or independent of any condition. there is no 3rd option here.

But when applied to existence generally, we end up with result that only two options are possible:

One, there are conditions which control all what will exist and what wont,

two, there are no such conditions, and thus, each possible thing has independent existence.

One is basically God.

two, likewise means God exists because each possible thing exists.

to better understand two, basic definition deduction is necessary.

P1. If no thing is required for existence, then everything exists

P2. No thing is required for existence

C. Everything exists.

to put it simply, this argument talks of what is needed for existence.

P1. Existence of a possible thing requires something or it doesnt require anything in order to happen

P2. If existence of a possible thing requires something, that "something" is essentially God

P3. If existence of a possible thing doesnt require anything in order to happen, then all possible things exist, including God

this argument explores what is required for a specific thing to exist in the first place. If nothing is required, then all things exist, including God. If something is required, that something is essentially God.

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P1. Existence can only be conditional or unconditionalP2. If existence is unconditional, then everything exists, including God.P3. If existence is conditional, conditions for existence are essentially same as God in power, thus GodC. God exists in both possible cases. Conditional existence talks of "existing only if some condition happens" Unconditional existence talks of "existing independently of any if conditions" Because 3rd option doesnt exist, any individual thing can only have its "existence" dependent on some condition, or independent of any condition. there is no 3rd option here. But when applied to existence generally, we end up with result that only two options are possible:One, there are conditions which control all what will exist and what wont,two, there are no such conditions, and thus, each possible thing has independent existence. One is basically God. two, likewise means God exists because each possible thing exists. to better understand two, basic definition deduction is necessary. P1. If no thing is required for existence, then everything existsP2. No thing is required for existenceC. Everything exists. to put it simply, this argument talks of what is needed for existence. P1. Existence of a possible thing requires something or it doesnt require anything in order to happenP2. If existence of a possible thing requires something, that "something" is essentially GodP3. If existence of a possible thing doesnt require anything in order to happen, then all possible things exist, including God this argument explores what is required for a specific thing to exist in the first place. If nothing is required, then all things exist, including God. If something is required, that something is essentially God.

#2

@SatanLucy

You are trying to reduce God to simple logic. God is beyond logic.

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#3

@Debby

true, but people here dont learn transcendental argument well.

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#4

@SatanLucy

How does reducing the argument to you logic make it any easier?

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#5

@Debby

It doesnt.

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#6

@SatanLucy

So you just complicated an already complex issue.

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#7

@SatanLucy

"Transcendental", is an electrochemically inspired neurological based assumption...As such, occurring wholly within the human mainframe...Same as any other "argument"...Same as all human data processing activity...Therefore, same as GOD data.

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#8

@SergeantLynch

It’s good to know God can be processed transcendentally.

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#9

@Debby

It's the only way, in so much as it's self contained information derived from sensory input.

There is no way of knowing what actually occurs outside the cranium, we rely wholly upon the internal reconstruction of incoming data signals.

Everything is in fact a simulation.

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#10

@SergeantLynch

Everything is in fact a simulation.

Yes, my religion teaches that the only ones who believe in material world are the losers.

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#11

@SergeantLynch

Everything is in fact a simulation.

which leads to a final event. The conclusion.

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#12

@Debby

Yes, there's a certain synonymity to that statement.

It's a bit like saying that the opening event is the beginning.

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#13

@SatanLucy

My philosophy says that those who believe are dreamers.

Losing or winning is a state of mind relative to a concept that has the potential for variable outcomes...A simulation indeed.

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#14

@SergeantLynch

Can it also be a manipulation?

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#15

@Debby

Can it also be a manipulation?

Not exactly sure what you are asking.

But do you mean, might all input be controlled by an external controller?...Quite possibly.

Are you referring to a GOD?...Might be a GODDESS or a FUNGI or a non-organic device.

And yes, said controller might have fed you with Middle Eastern fantasy tales.

Though why would a controller send out mixed messages?

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#16

@SergeantLynch

To redirect the simulation through manipulation.

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#17

Do you mean process and transfer?

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#18

@SergeantLynch

That’s how it works in the grand scheme of things.

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#19

@Debby

So we input data, process and perhaps modify it and then output and transfer...And so data is shared.

Yes I assume that is correct, just like I assume that sensory derived simulations are an accurate copy of an external reality...Though I have absolutely no way knowing what actually happens outside my cranium.

I think therefore I assume I am.

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#20

@SergeantLynch

How is your condition a simple argument for God as the topic suggests?

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#21

@Debby

As the title suggests the argument for a GOD is so simple you can even force feed it to children and make them believe it.

Now children, GOD exists and if you question why you will be sent to bed with no dinner.

Ok Daddy, GOD exists can I have some dinner please.

Simple.

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#22

@SergeantLynch

Are you a father? Hard to see you providing dinner to kids, when your hand are dirty all the time.

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#23

@Debby

I am 66, I have 40 year old kids...And I always wash my hands before cooking...I too was brainwashed by my parents...Ironically Mum would say cleanliness is next to godliness...Which was a bit odd for an atheist...Probably brainwashed with the same mantra.

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#24

@SergeantLynch

Do you have any missing organs at your age?

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#25

@Debby

Hmmmmmm...Are you under the impression that as we get older organs start to go missing.

Sort of...O dear I think I've left my liver in the supermarket.

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#26

@SergeantLynch

How about your kidneys? Do you still have healthy kidneys?

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#27

@Debby

Seem to be doing OK.

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#28

@SergeantLynch

So it must be your brain that is struggling with the discussions.

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