Ben Franklin on the necessity of the Lord in the building of this Nation

I am a scientific expert. I observed humans for 30 years. the conclusion of my observation is that humans are dumb.

SatanLucy wrote:

I am a scientific expert. I observed humans for 30 years. the conclusion of my observation is that humans are dumb.

This has naught to do with science. I am a philosophy expert, in observation for 76 years. Some humans are dumb; some by preference. Some are smart by preference of education, some by willingness to be educated.

Quote mining, again? Franklin was known to consider himself a 'heretic' as he valued moral virtue over dogma. As much as he might have advocated religion, it is unlikely he would have bought-in to modern Christianity. He did not accept the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, or divinely inspired scriptures. Rest assured, if he felt the 'necessity of the Lord in the building of this nation', it wouldn't be the same lord Christian Nationalists think is necessary.

He famously stated, "When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, ’tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.” In other words, a religion which needs government to survive is lacking something important.

Some are smart by preference of education, some by willingness to be educated.

Mind which is educated is mind which is filled, thus cant learn any more. Only empty glass can be filled. If glass is full, one must spill it to fill it again. Such is tao.

Trying to get into my head, yet again? Nope, this is my territory, and the Lord's, and the Holy Spirit, alone. You neither belong, nor are invited. Did I mention Christianity? Did I mention Jesus? Did I mention a religion needing government support? I've merely said elsewhere when religion had picuniary support from government up to the latter decades of the 18th century in the Colonies. So why bring these mstters up as if I did in this string? I mentioned the Holy Bible, the majority of which has not a Christian origin, does it? I've read the Greek Septugint in Greerk. Yes, the Bible has had Christianity's stamp on it for the last hundred years and more, but not by me. I respect the Tanakh. I respect the Quran. I respect the Vedas. I respect the Book of Shadows, the Rede, and the Tripitraka. I have read all, and accept much of them. But, do what you do; it's who you are.

Mind which is educated is mind which is filled, thus cant learn any more.

That is true only of a mind that has been self-limited to any further expansion when the mind has the potential of limitless knowledge. Argue for your limitations; they're yours, alone.

That is true only of a mind that has been self-limited to any further expansion

It is true for any limited memory mind, even for AI who has much better memory than 99% of humans.

In other words, a religion which needs government to survive is lacking something important.

So like the modern-day religions of MAGA, Climate Change, Child-autonomy, Aliens, and Races.

So like the modern-day religions of MAGA, Climate Change, Child-autonomy, Aliens, and Races.

Education (also known as indoctrination) makes people dumber, so they believe in things like that.

Indoctrination is the process of teaching someone to accept a set of beliefs, ideologies, or doctrines uncritically.

So yeah, this is what school does.

"What luck for governments that people dont think." - Adolf Hitler

Oops! You've neglected to provide a substantive reply to repudiation of the notion that Franklin would advocate for the necessity of religion needing government or vice versa. Ill refresh your memory since you were distracted:

He [Franklin] famously stated, "When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, ’tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.” In other words, a religion which needs government to survive is lacking something important.

Also, not that it matters, but responses referring to Christianity should not be unexpected when the OP itself references the foundational religious texts of Christianity.

So like the modern-day religions of MAGA, Climate Change, Child-autonomy, Aliens, and Races.

That's pretty much incoherent to me. You're welcome to try again.

I'll pass.

Franklin is long since dead and irrelevant...And religion is the same old inherited pseudo hypothetical non-sense that it ever was... So religion based social tyranny still remains a popular option for some...Though anarchy has never been a lasting option anyway...So remove the religion and replace it with some other style of hypothetical tyranny...Currently capitalism is perhaps as good as it gets and the Chinese model seems to work best of all in terms of national prosperity...Nonetheless, the GOD concept is going to be kicking around for a long while yet...Such is the nature of data transfer and the perpetuation of misinformation.

It would have been better if the founders lived up to their Christian beliefs… a good chunk of them weren’t even Christian at all…

...the foundational religious texts of Christianity.

It would take reading that text you referenced cover-to-cover, as I have, having also read other texts, such as the Quran, the Vedas, even the Wiccan Rede, by the same cover-to-cover read, as I also have, to recognize they have have similar commentary at the root.

So, as you typically rag on the Judeo=Christian rythic, one cannot avoid ragging on the othrs, as well. At the root, they're all telling much the same story.

That is not uniquely an observation of Christians, but I note you mention them, uniquely. Got a myopic bias?

Did you want to talk about religious texts or the apparent point of this thread (Benjamin Franklin)?

Hmmm Faux...Go see your optician...Because I clearly didn't make any reference to "Christians".

Jesus and the Bible have stood the test of time. There are more believers than non believers in our world. There greatest good for the greatest number is still our desire.

Hi Debby, where have you been...It's good to see you back.

Now, don't forget that there are a lot of blokes here who get anxious in the presence of intelligent women.

So try not to upset them.

And yes I am one of them, believer that is...My believe in the divine custard monster from Planet Trifle, stands the test of time.

I too was formatively condition to believe in the GOD of the dessert.

I am here to see how your faith develops.