If it was wf and I. I’d have bussed him already and have you shoot pie tomorrow. 

its why I know it’s pie 

A) When WF flips, it’ll could implicate you somehow

B) Why not take the win right now

Also to note. Wf and pie as scum have to bus. 

pie and David would push wf to end the game 

pie and wf have to tunnel each other to put distance between them

That is absolutely not true at all. And WF literally leans town on me right now lol. If anything, you have to put distance between yourself and WF. So good on you for projecting lol

So instantly claimed I motivated you before anything in this game was known the first night and claimed I followed Castin which she verified to buddy my scum partner when I could just buss him since both Castin and David have you in their Poe?

implicate what?

as og scum I’d have recruited him and his character is his character

or as og scum he’s have recruited me and my character is my character.

literally it’s like you can’t get the wf lynch now so you are pivoting.

Put distance as you just said I could be his scum partner?

you have to put distance between yourself and WF. So good on you for projecting lol

your argument is I’m putting distance between us by refusing to lynch him and defending him when as scum if I wanted to put distance, I’d just lynch him focus you tomorrow.

do you know how much logic that lacks. The reason you wanted his lynch so bad is because you either don’t have a choice but to push him because you can’t get another lynch or it ends the game. Now that you are realizing it’s going toward you first you are flailing.

Mikal / Wf doesn’t make any sense due to castin’s results. 

How?

We'd have to believe that wf/mikal chose to kill vader (who was also an easy mislynch target) over castin, a tracker that could potentially implicate whoever was performing the nk. We'd also have to believe that mikal performed an action other than a nk or roleblock, which also doesn't make sense. That's why I'm confident the team is either castin / mikal or wf / pie.

The NKA makes sense: Wf wants to use the doctor role to claim town cred. They killed vader over castin because if they killed castin it would implicate wf if he tried to claim he used a doctor role. In addition, castin was the most obv town player last day phase and is a very strong town PR. This is why I'm so confident in wf being scum or Mikal and Castin being the scum team

Again. You need to pick.

if you are leaning the pie and wf option. Pie covers all bases. We’ve went through

if it’s me and Castin then you need to be pushing that way.

but if you read what Pie is typing and don’t realize he’s scum at this point. I don’t know what to say.

Hold on, you made a great point about Whiteflame, let me revevaluate after this meeting I’m in

Pie is the common denominator. I strongly believe wf is og and pie is the recruit. That said, if we lynch the recruit scum over og scum then I am perfectly content with that.

VTL: Pie

ᵘⁿᵛᵒᵗᵉ

?

Bro you are literally all the over the place

I just voted pie. I am extremely confident in my reads. If you are the scum team you guys played great and deserve the w.

David if you are trying to gain town cred I respect it but no one is that dumb.

I’m at work and trying to prevent you from filibustering the entire DP.

Where tf is Whiteflame

unless you say something that is game changing. You are the common denominator.

you started with wf

went to me

and now you are somewhere else

do you see why this is flailing?

David if you are trying to gain town cred I respect it but no one is that dumb. 

Lol. I admit it was a reaction test. I was hoping you’d get destructed by the large vote and didn’t see the unvote underneath. After all I messed up the vote count but you missed the fact that I listed everyone and also noted it was L2. If you were scum I’d hope you’d make the same mistake.

Bruh the 2/5 was a Legit fuck up. Ain’t no one reading the names. I just saw the count. Youd have to be brain damaged to not see the above lol

unless you say something that is game changing. You are the common denominator. 

you started with wf 

went to me 

and now you are somewhere else 

do you see why this is flailing?

It’s not flailing. It’s asking for time to evaluate your arguments cause you’re literally just spamming PIE PIE PIE PIE PIE the entire DP.

Whiteflame hasn’t even said anything, which is also concerning

Whiteflame hasn’t even said anything, which is also concerning

agree. Which is why I’m confident in wf scum

I did say earlier that I’d be slammed today with samples. I’m still not home so it’s going to be a little while yet before I can post more, but if you want to sus me for my absence, at least recognize that I’ve said something already to that effect.

We'd have to believe that wf/mikal chose to kill vader (who was also an easy mislynch target) over castin, a tracker that could potentially implicate whoever was performing the nk.

Whats riskier? Confirmed information going out about the setup? Or an implication at LYLO between WF and a potential Tracker? The first you can’t WIFOM out, the second you can. Also, it’s not true that everyone townread Castin. Everyone just assumed she would have to be a converted scum, which she still can be but is unlikely. Also, WF may have an ability like a Deflector to deflect the Tracking. Or even Redirecting.

Cause Vader could only be a converted scum with his role, not original. The entire goal was to hunt the original scum. And he would have to give that information to someone else.

We'd also have to believe that mikal performed an action other than a nk or roleblock, which also doesn't make sense. That's why I'm confident the team is either castin / mikal or wf / pie. 

Why couldn’t he have just performed the Follower. Also if Mikal is scum and Wryly is town, he knows Wryly isn’t lying. He could’ve used any manipulative action on Wryly or because he’s likely the converted scum, gotten the follower and used it on Wryly for town cred.

The NKA makes sense: Wf wants to use the doctor role to claim town cred. They killed vader over castin because if they killed castin it would implicate wf if he tried to claim he used a doctor role. In addition, castin was the most obv town player last day phase and is a very strong town PR. This is why I'm so confident in wf being scum or Mikal and Castin being the scum team

Mikal/Castin isn’t a team because they would be indifferent to killing me or WF. That’s a team you can just rule out.

Again, it boils down to the fact that you 100% know WF is scum via POE. There’s a world that exists where I’m Town. You don’t have the surety. That’s just cold hard facts.

We can debate balance all we want. We can debate night actions all we want. We can debate who scum would’ve recruited all we want. But POE is 100%

Also, consider that Mikal is calling the team exactly as Pie/Kohai. Exactly. It can’t be Pie/WF because of his own words. It can’t be Pie/Castin because he town locked her. Unless you think we’re bussing with Pie/Mikal, which we don’t even have to do cause you are fine with lynching WF, you should know here that WF is scum. Cause you aren’t scum from your own POV.

Pretty busy atm, jotting down some thoughts to get them out.

If it was WF/Pie, they'd know they were going to have to bus at this point and would be trying to guide the lynch toward the most expendable of the two of them. If Pie is the recruit, that's definitely him. His power, if true, is worthless as scum, correct? So if I was Pie, and the recruit, I'd be trying to eat the lynch. If I was Pie and OG scum, I lied about my Martyr power, and I'd be trying to lynch whiteflame because his Scavenger also kind of only helps town. If I straightclaimed my character, that would leave the original scum split at Dr. Wren/Ripley, which would be humans vs nonhumans, not complex at all, like Lunatic said it would be. But if I lied about my character, Ellen Ripley is a ballsy choice, literally the protagonist of the franchise, easily could be CC'd. And why fake claim a character who is mentioned in Casey's PM?

It can't be Mikal/Kohai, because both of them have to be the recruit if scum. Kohai visited no one NP1. The only way I could see this work is if Kohai is the recruit, Mikal is OG, and he visited me with a scum power I have yet to see the effect of. Then he had Kohai carry out the NK. Doesn't seem likely.

If it was Mikal/whiteflame, Mikal is just sitting around tapping his foot waiting for whiteflame to get on here and hammer Pie because Kohai is willing to switch his vote to Pie. Mikal would be the recruit, whiteflame would be OG. Once Pie is lynched it would be game over.

If it was Pie and Kohai, they'd be gunning hard for whiteflame. Kohai would be the recruit; Pie's power would be a lie. It's clear Kohai's preference is whiteflame, and Pie is indeed gunning for WF. But if Pie straightclaimed his character, we're again left at Dr. Wren + Ripley for original scum split, and if Ripley is a fake claim it's still a very odd one.

Mikal and Pie makes no sense. Mikal would have no reason to come gunning for Pie here when he could just hammer whiteflame with Pie's vote and Kohai's.

whiteflame/Kohai - Kohai came immediately for whiteflame instead of Pie, which would be odd in this pairing.

Alright, I finally have some time to dedicate to this. If someone has something they want me to respond to, point me to the post or quote it for me. I'm going to catch up and we'll go from there.

Why would an OG scum Kohai CC a townie and full claim out of the blue?

There is zero reason to do that.

I agree with the repeated argument that we should be aiming for OG scum, and I agree David isn't it. If he's scum, it's because he was recruited, and I still don't think that's likely due to his willingness to be the auto-lynch next DP.

The POE of who could be OG scum is exactly Whiteflame.

Obviously disagree.

Let’s say you think I’m the OG scum. I soft claimed Martyr in DP1 why? To avoid being interfered with? Protected?

You said that you weren't going to die and suggested protective roles not target you in DP1. In retrospect, that could suggest a Martyr. It's not the only role that could suggest and it suggests town players shouldn't visit you, but I'll give you credit that the soft works with your role claim.

Let’s say I’m the OG scum who has an active role. Why would I say no to Mikal supposedly motivating me? Let’s say I’m an OG scum that has a passive role. That sounds super weak with a Yakuza to begin with.

I agree, if Mikal did motivate you, you'd have good reason to support what he did. I don't agree with the view that having a passive role "sounds super weak with a Yakuza" as that role is inherently very powerful. It dramatically limits what you can personally do, but being able to convert a town player is a huge boon for scum.

If I was OG scum, why advocate and literally coordinate a mass claim and risk being caught vs getting individual claims to minimize CC risk?

...because it looked a lot townier to pursue the massclaim? A lot of us were agreed on that, and yes, it comes with a not insubstantial risk of being CC'd. Specifically being CC'd on this version of Martyr would be pretty surprising - there aren't a lot of roles in that category and I'd say it's pretty low risk when you're largely just concerned with the existence of a Beloved Princess - but sure, it's a risk. You weren't the only one strongly advocating for a mass claim, so the risk of CC was on everyone backing the strategy, but I'll give you credit for putting much of your weight behind it.

I'll be posting my reads on everyone later. For now I'm brooding on why Vader was lynched instead of me. I can think of only a few reasons.

They wanted to gin up suspicion around why I was still alive

They wanted to keep the least experienced player in the game

They wanted to exploit my tracking somehow to farm town cred

I'd bet on at least one of these being a factor in your survival, though it's worth pointing out that Vader giving out more information could also have resulted in more suspicion targeted at scum. Your role can be manipulated by a wide variety of roles. Vader would either have to be RB'd or somehow overwritten, and the information he would have delivered is less predictable.

The wiki said the informant's message was the same each night. Maybe I misunderstood.

I just thought of something. The night kill only make sense if whiteflame is scum. If he killed castin he could never fake claim that he was a doctor and healed castin. Castin was the obvoius night kill so whiteflame avoided killing him to get fake town cred.

If I was scum, I could have claimed I targeted someone different and killed Wryly, or I could just have said I used REF's role to try to solve the game. I don't see what kind of town cred I get for targeting a player who was townread with my role, so I'm surprised you think I get any especially when Vader died instead.

If whiteflame is scum then I think scum really messed up the last night phase. Whiteflame should not have made any night kill, claim to be town who saved castin from being killed, and then everyone would be lynching mikal nowt hat it is confirmed he visited castin

So you think I was seeking towncred as scum, but then point out that I didn't take the most basic step I could have to ensure my role looked authentic? A little inconsistent, but fine.

The wiki said the informant's message was the same each night. Maybe I misunderstood.

I must have misread that. I assumed the message changed, but I just checked and it says "a predetermined message," so it must just be one. That's frustrating, it would have been nice to have someone confirm the message he sent me.