1990s-2000s Nostalgia Mafia (DP2)

Also the reason I was not coming off you is cus godfather is common like very here

my role bypasses that

he also adjusted how roleblock works because he felt like my role should not know.

so the fact that claiming your role turns you into a vanilla. Nah.

ill eat it.

My bad I was unaware

Also last bitch fit. Just yolo giving mafia a nk makes it so there is no dp3 when pie had been claiming innocent child all game.

the choices

It’s not your fault dude.

literally says most townsied game in history when entire town can turn into vanilla and he gives them an extra kill and it covers pies claiim

None of y'all realized that I said, "Unsaid's role is investigative", so I could lie-detect my own statement, and that it probably made Unsaid shoot me and die? Only three people had claimed basically nothing about their role near the end of day 1: myself, Rex, and unsaid. I knew I was town and felt okay about Rex, so I said something about Unsaid's role so I had the option of lie-detecting it in case I decided not to test anyone's claims.

It was largely irrelevant. When he decides to add an extra kill without telling anyone. And just auto stick us in mylo. Game is cooked.

It made us kill you over Mikal lol. That and the fact that Mikal was more of a known quantity.

Well... this was a very frustrating game.

I don't get the decision to give scum an extra NK because of the mod confirmation. That's overcompensating and it put us at MYLO way too early. Couple that with an effective RB on everyone who claimed and Unsaid's decision to shoot NP1 (still don't get that) and we were fucked going into DP2 regardless of what other roles Pie and REF had.

Also, the lack of will to push REF on his claim is still bonkers to me, cannot figure that one out beyond just Max and Awesome being absent/focused elsewhere.

This was... certainly something.

It made us kill you over Mikal lol. That and the fact that Mikal was more of a known quantity.

So you caught that I was the lie detector? And how did Unsaid die? I thought I just read that Lunatic was scum.

Wait, extra NK? Jeez. I gotta re-read this whole thread.

As others have said, the Lawyer/GF was not impossible, though I was ready and willing to dismiss the latter as a possibility. Mainly, it was that decision to call me out as sus this DP that did not make sense. I was literally the one with the most reason to vouch for you, and it made me question my results more than I already was.

As for the scenario you laid out, it makes sense... if we're not at MYLO. You can't confirm another player as town that way when losing the player in question ends the game.

So you caught that I was the lie detector? And how did Unsaid die? I thought I just read that Lunatic was scum.

We just figured you had some sort of investigative role but couldn't work out quite what it was. Figured we were better off offing you.

I know people have said that the extra kill was excessive, but I really think it was the only way to make the game fair in retrospect. The large amount of investigative and protective roles in play meant that with three town players basically confirmed we had no room to maneuver. There was very little path open to scum that way, we would be boxed in by DP3 completely. Just think if unsaid had used that role more wisely how completely unbalanced the game would be in town's favor.

Town lost for three reasons. The first is that they more or less ignored anticlaim despite a pretty dire and explicit warning. Can't really complain about anticlaim being severe when the OP underlined it in red ink for you and multiple people mentioned it and then proceeded to completely ignore it and claim DP1 anyway.

The second was relying on angleshooting. If Mikal had just used that info to craft his own PoE without mentioning its source there would have been no mod reprisal and scum would have had more room to maneuver, as the advantage conferred would be small. As it stood the consensus was that we either needed to reroll the entire game or give scum a severe offset to counteract almost half of town being confirmed that way. Most mods don't want to reroll a game, so I feel like eventually angleshooting will be seen as anti-town behavior because mods will respond to it aggressively to rebalance the game.

The third was unsaid just yoloing it, wasting a powerful role, and killing himself in the process. As Whiteflame already said, it makes zero sense to use that role DP1. If he had just waived that role could have changed the game NP2 by counterbalancing the NK.

Gonna try very hard to forget this sh1t show of a game existed and move on with my life, on to the next one. Rex please dont make us wait for 13 lol its probably not going to happen and if it does its gonna take a month and half will be inactive, just like with terraria lol

I get that the setup itself seems to have been town-sided, but two NKs along with the anti-claim mechanic (which basically invalidated half of those roles entirely while two of the remainder were just killed off, leaving us with two roles that could do anything) meant we got precisely one NP to make them count, and if we didn't target perfectly with exactly the right role, there was almost nothing we could do going into DP2.

I'm not going to argue that town didn't make mistakes here. Having 4 claims DP1 in a game where it is very explicitly told to us that an anti-claim mechanic would make them problematic was a mistake. Unsaid may think otherwise, but his having used his role NP1 was a mistake. But even assuming this went near perfectly - e.g. roughly two claims meaning two roles get blocked by anti-claim, we lynch largely at random from the remaining players, and Unsaid waits until NP2 to use his role - that scenario still leaves us with 4 night actions at best (that's if I Doc the right target or Luna survives and uses his role on the right target leaving us at 6-2, and you guys have no other roles to impede night actions) in a game where there were multiple CCs. Most of the remaining players would have been RB'd as a result of claiming in DP2, so a lot of the value of those night actions goes down after that.

And remember, that's best case scenario. If I chose the wrong target with my Doc or used a different role and Luna fails to block a kill, we would have gone down to 5-2 with just 3 possible night actions, meaning the game could still end NP2 if Unsaid misfired.

I get that there were errors here, but the second NK really breaks this game. If we don't stop it or get a solid lead on a scum player NP1, the odds of town winning go down precipitously, essentially just turning this into a game of whether Unsaid shoots the right target. That's absurdly swingy.

roughly two claims meaning two roles get blocked by anti-claim

We got one block if one person claimed, two is three people claimed, and if all town players claimed they could all be blocked. It wasn't a 1:1 thing.

We got one block if one person claimed, two is three people claimed, and if all town players claimed they could all be blocked. It wasn't a 1:1 thing.

Alright, that changes things a bit, though I'd still say a lot had to go right for town in one NP for this to work out in our favor. I'll grant that there were multiple opportunities, more so if we had only one or two people claim, but I'd say the odds of us ending up at 5-2 by the end of NP1 are still far higher than the odds of us preventing an NK, which could still effectively put us in MYLO if Unsaid hung onto his role and targeted town.

its a 10 person game and we got 2 tries to kill someone

1) none of that was mod confirmed. I was trying to sell it and make a case but half the people were questioning Luna

2) you can’t just give someone an extra kill cus the mod messed up. Completely breaks balance. Makes a tp look like it’s in the game or other weird shit that should not happen. Doing that literally was a dp2 mylo in a 10 person game. It’s not fair or balanced.

3) anti claim has always existed for a full claim. Not a partial claim (but that’s fine)

4) refusing to tell me if I was roleblocked because he thought my role should not let me know if I’m roleblocked then saying everyone doesn’t get told if there is a roleblock is just weird.

2 anti claim blocks + 2 night kills to cover for a mistake is wild and there is no way to defend that

a 10 person game ending on dp2 lmao

Thre extra kill literally let pie lock in innocnent child which he has been softing since dp1 where as a single kill at lesst gives 3 Dayphase a.

the extra kill literally broke this

removes one power role from the game entirely and removes a Dayphase.

lowkey so annoyed. I always say gg and move on. But this was definitely bastard modding

Endgame posted with my commentary: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/endgames/posts/1c/1990s-2000s-nostalgia-mafia-endgame