Barry Mafia - DP1

I literally had a dream that I got a certain character in this game. No kidding The next day when I got my role PM I got the exact character I dreamed I was. WTF am I a psychic?

I had hoped we would one day be scummates since I knew you have a reputation for taking wild risks. It happened very soon after, in Suikoden. We remember how that panned out.

My hot take of the hour is that you might not want to publicize a list of characters that are "almost guaranteed" to be in the game because there's a reasonable chance that at least one "obvious" character is going to not be included in order to create claim space.

At least, that would be my guess. Seems a likely outcome of allowing questions rather than giving fake claims to scum outright.

Doesnt make any sense. We can still talk about characters that may and may not exist and acknowledge that mafia have a fake claim.

Mild disagree. If an obvious character were left out, how would scum know which one? Unless they had more information to work off than the answers to their questions, they would most likely ask about a character that is in the game. Sheer probability.

Meta might have changed here, I suppose, but last I was aware, the games don't tend to go more than a couple Day phases without several claims both role and character-wise. That would narrow down a possible list.

So he elaborates as kinda like a Miller but useful.

For clarity's sake, that was sarcasm, because my elaboration was not particularly helpful in my eyes.

Meta might have changed here, I suppose, but last I was aware, the games don't tend to go more than a couple Day phases without several claims both role and character-wise. That would narrow down a possible list

This is honestly my biggest gripe with our meta. Character claims are almost always banned on sites like MU and MS. On this site we claim even when we don’t need to and most games the solving is done through analyzing character claims

Doesnt make any sense. We can still talk about characters that may and may not exist and acknowledge that mafia have a fake claim.

Sure. I suppose I just take issue with framing it as being something "almost guaranteed" and tipping off scum as to which characters would be most likely to be believed if they were to be claimed. Although I grant that this show seems to be well-known enough that a quick Google is enough to reach that point regardless.

TBH I would love to actually have a proper game where no one character claims until at least day 3

This is honestly my biggest gripe with our meta. Character claims are almost always banned on sites like MU and MS. On this site we claim even when we don’t need to and most games the solving is done through analyzing character claims

It's a difficult meta to change. Anticlaim is a decent way of forcing people to work around it, in my experience- I'm partial to the Unassigned Anti-Flavor Factional Roleblock. Pretty severe but not outright lethal.

Sure. I suppose I just take issue with framing it as being something "almost guaranteed" and tipping off scum as to which characters would be most likely to be believed if they were to be claimed. Although I grant that this show seems to be well-known enough that a quick Google is enough to reach that point regardless.

I dont think theorizing at what characters exist tip scum off to anything, there is still a large amount of skepticism that will go with any major claim especially if the role doesn't fit the character. Putting a list of potential characters to exist isn't a statement that all these claims will be town confirmed, or are even neccesarily safe. But I think the utility in it is that we can look at outliers with a bit of scrutiny, because there will be more than one scum who will either have to claim outside that list or take a siginificant risk of CC by claiming within it.

TBH I would love to actually have a proper game where no one character claims until at least day 3

This is impossible. I mean even if no one is asking for claims, if you suspect someone purely on behavior and try to push their lynch, gather support for it, put the guy at l-1, they are going to claim to try and save themselves. Which they probably should. I mean if they are the cop or something we aren't going to lynch them right? But I get the sentiment about people claiming frivolously, which tends to be a running theme on this site.

Character claims are almost always banned on sites like MU and MS.

Banned? As in banned in the site's rules? Do they not do themed games on there?

Meta might have changed here, I suppose, but last I was aware, the games don't tend to go more than a couple Day phases without several claims both role and character-wise. That would narrow down a possible list.

Fair point. I was thinking that scum would want to use the questions early on in hopes that an earlier claim would sound more believable or so they could set things up for a later claim.

That last post should have mentioned you, not Kohai.

I had hoped we would one day be scummates since I knew you have a reputation for taking wild risks. It happened very soon after, in Suikoden. We remember how that panned out.

What is the relevancy of this?

Characters I would be surprised if they weren't in the game:

Barry Berkman (Main Character)

Sally Reed (Barry's love interest/ girlfriend)

Monroe Fuches (Barrys original mentor)

Janice Moss (Detective. She is only in season 1, but she is a huge catalyst for Barry's character development, and has such an impact on the show it would be surprising if she wasn't in it)

Gene Cosineau (Barry's acting coach who impacts him majorly and ends up becoming a huge part of the show)

NoHo Hank (Funniest character in the show by far, Gay Russian mob dude with tons of personality)

Christobal Sifuentes (Bolivian Crime lord, and lover to NoHo Hank)

Characters that might be in the game:

Goran Pazar (He is mostly big in season 1)

Mayrbeck (Has a pretty significant role in season 2 that I could see making whiteflame want to put him in the game)

Chris lucado (Former marine friend of Barry's. Not in a lot of episodes but also has a pretty big impact on Barry's character development and repercussions from something that happens with him occur in later seasons).

There are a lot more side characters and one or two could be in the game, but these characters are ones that stood out to me personally watching the show.

Alright let’s do this

Hm hm hm, going to be interesting to navigate around a cast I mostly don't know.

In any case, I'm hard-claiming a negative utility role that affects investigations. I can elaborate further if necessary, but would rather hold back on specifics for now.

Alright so you’re basically claiming miller. I suggest you try extra hard to find scum otherwise you’re the de facto lynch today

If you can elaborate further that would be great. Also almost an instant town read for you.

Welcome to debatecraft btw 

Why is that an instant townread?

Anyway, VTL Pie- miss me?

Always buddy, kinda upset you went AWOL for so long lol

Hello everyone. Nice to see Cerulean again.

Alright Earth, welcome back. Why are you town?

So he elaborates as kinda like a Miller but useful. Fair, but tbh would prefer a character claim for all SOP claims like that

He’s our defacto lynch anyways unless we have a better option.

I had hoped we would one day be scummates since I knew you have a reputation for taking wild risks. It happened very soon after, in Suikoden. We remember how that panned out.

Honestly yall probs would’ve won if the balance wasn’t wacko

This is honestly my biggest gripe with our meta. Character claims are almost always banned on sites like MU and MS. On this site we claim even when we don’t need to and most games the solving is done through analyzing character claims

Then just do straight vanilla games. Why even include a theme at all. Just for shits and giggles? If you want a pure behavioral game, the solution is to do a vanilla game.

Theme analysis is a legit analysis. And it’s not like lynches are purely based off of theme. There’s usually a combination of factors like role claim, behavior, character, and justification.

It's a difficult meta to change. Anticlaim is a decent way of forcing people to work around it, in my experience- I'm partial to the Unassigned Anti-Flavor Factional Roleblock. Pretty severe but not outright lethal.

Anticlaim is stupid. Just give scum strong fake claims if you’re concerned about that. Or just do a plain behavioral game

I think I know why it would get an instant townread, but I'll let Kohai explain their reasoning.

I do think anti-claim is a good middle ground in that it means claiming is still allowed, but it becomes more of a last resort than an immediate "I have one vote, time to spill everything" option. Making claiming risky allows it to take a bit more of a backseat to behavioral analysis without completely disregarding it.

Mafia should be mechanics and behavior and leaning too far either way (mountainous or games that completely turn on mechanics) feels like taking things in the wrong direction, in my opinion.

Banned? As in banned in the site's rules? Do they not do themed games on there?

Most flavored games on MU restrict talking about the flavor. I don't actually know why, since they typically don't see theme splits.

Theming/flavor there is more of a coat of paint that you're not supposed to talk about than an integral part of the games like here.

Our style of games might be getting stale, but thats probably due to the size of our player base. We would start to complain if we did everything like MU. Kinda funny that Pie immediately told Cerulean his intention to policy lynch him if he couldn't find a better lynch after his long absence lol.

I do think anti-claim is a good middle ground in that it means claiming is still allowed, but it becomes more of a last resort than an immediate "I have one vote, time to spill everything" option. Making claiming risky allows it to take a bit more of a backseat to behavioral analysis without completely disregarding it.

I think it should be 50/50. Early on, no one is lynching based on character anyways. It’s purely behavior. The person is forced to claim because of behavior. Town shouldn’t get punished because of that

Our style of games might be getting stale, but thats probably due to the size of our player base. We would start to complain if we did everything like MU. Kinda funny that Pie immediately told Cerulean his intention to policy lynch him if he couldn't find a better lynch after his long absence lol.

MU is liberal cesspool. I like Ceru…only if he isn’t scum

MU is liberal cesspool. I like Ceru…only if he isn’t scum

If you think MU is bad try MS. They’ll ban you if you even dare say lynch. At least MU is a tiny bit more lenient.