HCBM Mafia DP3

Yeah

No time rn, be back on later

I'm the Cop. NP1 copped Pie, he was innocent. NP2 copped Mag1c. Innocent. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a GF though, some people sure seemed certain we had another investigative

Remember my theory that there was a cop, hiding somewhere, that didn’t want to claim?

Called it, and I knew it was you.

I figured it was you the second you spent so much time arguing there could be three investigatives. In addendum, you felt a lot of need to ask Magoroth if he were a dreamer.

i really do think he just wanted to give his fake character for town cred, and was just awkward about trying to justify it. And I also think there may be another investigative out there hiding, not wanting to claim. Which is fine I suppose.

this was from my scumread of Magoroth from yesterday

And believe it or not, I am and have been considering you are town.

The thing I can’t get around is the way you just outed your character out of the blue. I especially don’t think it aligns with the incentives of an investigative.

WAIT THE GAME IS SOLVED

hold on lemme type it out

Hmmm I highly doubt Cop + Sensor makes any kind of sense.

Godfather must exist or Wryly is full of shit.

Okay I buy Wryly’s claim, actually.

I figured it was you the second you spent so much time arguing there could be three investigatives. In addendum, you felt a lot of need to ask Magoroth if he were a dreamer.

I figured if I was still alive today after that, it probably meant there was a Godfather because Godfathers want to be copped. In that way telegraphing my role a bit might actually keep me alive long enough to cop the non-Godfather. Alas.

GAME SOLVED.

The scum between the two of you (Magoroth and Whiteflame) can concede to save us all time, btw.

POINT ONE: Thoth and Wryly are town confirmed. Magoroth is either lying about his results, or he is telling the truth. If he is lying, he is scum, and Thoth and Wryly are not. If he is telling the truth, Shining was the one scum from (Thoth, Shining, Wryly); therefore, Thoth and Wryly cannot be scum.

POINT TWO: I, Mag1c, am (almost, but realistically) town confirmed, for I cannot be a godfather (nor can Thoth or Wryly). If Magoroth is lying, he is scum, and I am not. If he is telling the truth, then I must be innocent- he said godfathers hinder his results (post #525 DP2). Since Wryly copped me innocent, I can only be mafia if I am a godfather. But then, Magoroth's results would've said 0 scum between (Kohai, Mag1c, Whiteflame). His results say there is 1, so in this case, Whiteflame would have to be the scum on Magoroth's sensor- not me.

DISCLAIMER:

Technically, I could be a redirector, and pulling some gambit where I redirected Wryly knowing she was cop and would investigate me. If you want to argue that, good luck. Because now I can only be *one specific role*, AND I decided to bring little miss "MOTHERFUCKER YES MAG1C IS SCUM" into the next DP with me. And before you go on about "muh wifom" keep in mind that *if* you accept I could be wifoming, I would have outed my own wifom just now and reduced it to a 50/50- a risk that even you should admit is quite stupid for mafia. That's not how I play these games as scum, past teammates can attest. And before you argue something else, the only reason I found this is by steelmanning against my own argument. So yeah, technically this is all possible, but it relies on the stars aligning for me to be doing one specific gambit with one specific role. Like I said, good luck arguing that.

BTW: For the same reason I cannot be a godfather, Thoth and Wryly also cannot be a godfather. So you can't argue that either.

POINT THREE: Either Whiteflame is scum, or Magoroth is scum.

Given 1 and 2, We are down to two remaining. Whiteflame does not have any innocent result. Magoroth, however, could be a godfather. Magoroth's results are not useful to clear him of being godfather like they were for me, because he could just be making them up. I am comfortable asserting he is one- a cop indicates the presence of a godfather, plus he was the first one this whole game to bring up a godfather- at times asserting it was me. Of course, if you trust Magoroth that much, Whiteflame is your lynch.

We have two DPs to lynch both of them, so this should be an auto win for town. You can go for either, but I'm going with Magoroth because I think he is behaviorally scum- more than Whiteflame for sure.

VTL Magoroth

see above

there was a chance you could've been doctor, but I was so convinced Magoroth was scum that I was convinced there just had to be another investigative lurking

happy to be validated

yes three investigatives is technically possible, but among Vader/SupaDudz's 8-10 player games, only two of them had three investigatves. Most had only two.

And since you want to ask why you're still alive, an alternative reason is the sheer confidence of which you declared me scum at the end of last DP.

True.

But the thing is. I really am Sensor.

I don’t know if the setup you propose is even possible. Sensor + Cop, without any Miller or Godfather?

Just a shitty Ninja that is immune to Tracker?

I don’t see this as a possibility.

your own results indicate Wryly cannot be scum, so you can't reasonably assert she is lying about her cop. Especially since I just debunked the concept of her being a godfather.

I don’t know what to think. We haven’t seen the other flip and it’s possible, although perhaps not particularly likely, for a Framer to be in play. Which would mean Whiteflame investigates as Scum when he in fact isn’t and the scum is actually in [Wryly, Thoth].

I don’t know what to think.

No, they don’t. Framer is possible. I don’t know why anyone thinks my results are bulletproof.

I don’t buy Cop + Sensor without any Framer, Godfather, or Miller as possibility. That is ridiculously town-sided.

And Miller doesn’t seem very likely.

If there’s a Miller it almost certainly has to be the Bodyguard, which kinda makes some sense I guess if you’re gonna put two investigatives? They both see the protective role as scum.

Idk maybe it really is that simple and Whiteflame is scum but... really?

I’m down to lynch Whiteflame and if the game doesn’t end, we reevaluate and kill someone in [Thoth, Wryly], I guess. Probably Thoth?

the framer + godfather would have to be on the same slot, with the godfather being passive, if you want to assert anything outside of you and Whiteflame. Said framer would've had to have framed either me or Whiteflame on top of that.

face the music. You know I'm right but you don't want to concede that it's between you and Whiteflame.

You realise this setup is ridiculously town-sided if Wryly is telling the truth and there is no Godfather or Framer, right?

there's no sensor. simple as.

Btw, Wryly is almost certainly telling the truth so she’s outside of my PoE.

I just don’t buy that Framer and Godfather don’t exist.

cop tracker is not so bad if there's no sensor

I doubt a framer and I think you're the godfather

I am Sensor man. I don’t like your insistence that I’m not but idk, I don’t think you’d be fighting this, this hard at 4v1. Maybe you would? But I doubt it. So that leaves Whiteflame as scum that for some reason isn’t invulnerable to Sensor/Cop, or Thoth as scum framer, or you as scum framer godfather (I have seen Framer be immune to detection before) who framed Whiteflame.

Idk

Why are you doubting a Framer?

I think you intentionally didn’t kill Wryly because you’re Godfather and somehow figured out her claim (why would a Town be looking for investigative roles?) because it paints me as scum.

VTL Mag1cman

I also am not buying the fact that he’s the only Citizen claim.

By the way a Framer would definitely be on the lookout for a Cop or for a Miller, he thought Kohai claimed Miller. I think he slipped and he’s Framer/Godfather. And Whiteflame is maybe the only protective role in this entire game.

I think this game is solved regardless. We lynch Mag1cman and then Whiteflame tomorrow if this game continues.

Why would town be looking for investigatives? Because I think you're scum, but didn't think you could be scum if there were only two investigatives. So I looked for someone who could be that third investigative

and since we agree cop-tracker-sensor is busted, killing Wryly and pushing you is a lot simpler than all the wifom you'd have to assert I'd be doing. Plus I leave Kohai alive as a last ditch if I need it.