HCBM Mafia DP3

Not if Rex was the Vanilla, that's why he was apathetic about getting lynched, and Mag1c stole his Vanilla and fake claimed it.

*town roleblocker

When faced with a mislynch, I'm not even sure there's a role in the game where he's better off getting lynched than claiming.

Maybe Hunter? Or whatever y'all call the role that kills someone else upon death.

Anyway, to buy Wryly's theory that Mag1c stole Rex's vanilla and fake-claimed it, I would have to buy that Mag1c thought to imitate Vader's writing style. I'm not putting it past him, but that would be far stronger as part of a case against whiteflame than against Mag1c.

This is one of those gutreadable behavioral tells I mentioned in my previous post. This comes off to me as scum pointing us in their desired direction.

You know what? I'll take it man

Anyway, to buy Wryly's theory that Mag1c stole Rex's vanilla and fake-claimed it, I would have to buy that Mag1c thought to imitate Vader's writing style. I'm not putting it past him, but that would be far stronger as part of a case against whiteflame than against Mag1c

You know what? I'll take it.

*responding to this post, not the other one

I was gonna say something snappy about the other one but I held my tongue

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

I will be patient with people

my thoughts are that Wryly is almost certainly Town, I think Thoth is town also. so we need to lynch between Mag1cman and Whiteflame

such amazing input. much wow

VTL Whiteflame

I don’t like Whiteflame’s politiciany way of speaking. Neither Mag1c nor Thoth strike as me super scummy, it’s possible Mag1c is faking his whole anger shtick but it seems kinda a long time to be going faking this whole emotion crap.

I think it’s Whiteflame. He probably just isn’t the type to concede.

I'm in danger of getting tunnel vision on Mag1c here, so let me look at the others.

Magoroth - He claimed Cody Parkey DP1, immediately; I only really see him doing that as scum if he got Cody as a fake claim, which means scum were not given role claims, which means Sensor was a hell of a risk to claim (and so was Roleblocker, unless scum had a Roleblocker). He had no idea when he claimed Sensor in DP2 if there was another informative role in the game that could CC him, like a Dreamer or Informed Townie or something. The way he waffled on the accuracy of his information was baffling if he was scum. Shining pushes hard on Mago and in turn Mago starts to scumread Shining in the middle of DP2 and VTL's him unnecessarily at EOD when voting differently could have kept his partner alive.

whiteflame - If he's lying, then the only thing close to protection town received is Bleeder, which is pretty hard for me to wrap my head around. He questions Shining's Roleblocker claim immediately, points out that Shining didn't even say who he used it on NP1. Shining suggests a whiteflame/Thoth pairing and whiteflame is baffled. This would all have to have been theatrics. When talk of the dayvig comes around, whiteflame proposes Shining. Toward the end of DP2 his scumread of Shining gets stronger and he VTL's Shining. Magoroth was right there, an easy mislynch target. Why vote Shining? Mag1c and Shining both wanted a Magoroth lynch; whiteflame would have been the third vote and then he only needed one more. Kohai would have probably gone along. Instead whiteflame kept saying he actually had a townread on Mago and ends up VTLing Shining.

Just doesn't add up to me.

I pointed this out earlier this DP. When faced with a mislynch, I'm not even sure there's a role in the game where he's better off getting lynched than claiming. I ended up concluding that Rex may have been tailored (town redirector, which Shining stole? Not sure), but he also just didn't feel like playing the game anymore.

Although, now that I think about it: If Rex was tailored, why didn't the mafia team make him flip hated? It'd immediately screw Kohai over. It may be that Shining just used the ninja.

Probably because it would make no sense for Rex not to have immediately CC'd Kohai in that case. If you're town and see someone claim your role, you CC, not roll over and let yourself be mislynched.

Mafia are given fake claims. However, they are either given fake characters or fake roles. They are not given both. They did not choose which one they got

From the DP1 intro.

Yeah, my head hasn't been on right. Misread it.

Probably because it would make no sense for Rex not to have immediately CC'd Kohai in that case. If you're town and see someone claim your role, you CC, not roll over and let yourself be mislynched.

fair enough

You are the most mercurial player I have ever fucking seen

And I've played with Kohai

I just can't make whiteflame or Magoroth work in my head for the reasons I stated in #159. If you'd like to make a stronger case to me for either, those are the sticking points for me.

Excellent point. While all the flips so far appear to be pretty much in Vader's writing style, I did think earlier that, if I had to pick one flip as looking like someone else wrote it, it would be Rex's. As I explained in post #95, Vader said that scum would write a Tailor's entire fake role card, and whiteflame is probably the only person who would think to imitate the game host's writing style. As badly as I have been gutreading some of Mag1c's behavior, I'm almost ready to death-tunnel whiteflame over this.

Maybe there's some reason why Rex thought his flip be ex post facto self-explanatory. whiteflame, I'd like your take on that.

I'd like to understand your thinking on this. I've already said that I think Rex's flip is Tailored. Your conclusion from that is that I'm the only one who could have Tailored it. We know scum received fake character claims, so the only thing scum would have had to work out in writing a Tailored flip is the role and how it works. Coming up with Bleeder and the blurb after it isn't a stretch for anyone here.

Thoth's recent remarks on Whiteflame are exactly why Magoroth is pivoting to Whiteflame btw

Imo it seems like common sense to just make the phrasing of the tailored PM sound as close to the phrasing in your real role PM as you can.

If they swapped characters with Rex, they didn't even need to forge anything, just copy and paste.

VTLing someone in DP3 because they sound "politiciany" is baffling to me, I grant.

Magoroth - He claimed Cody Parkey DP1, immediately; I only really see him doing that as scum if he got Cody as a fake claim, which means scum were not given role claims, which means Sensor was a hell of a risk to claim (and so was Roleblocker, unless scum had a Roleblocker). He had no idea when he claimed Sensor in DP2 if there was another informative role in the game that could CC him, like a Dreamer or Informed Townie or something. The way he waffled on the accuracy of his information was baffling if he was scum. Shining pushes hard on Mago and in turn Mago starts to scumread Shining in the middle of DP2 and VTL's him unnecessarily at EOD when voting differently could have kept his partner alive.

I think these are valid points, even if some of them aren't quite as telling to me. We know scum received fake character claims, so character claiming early isn't really a factor for me. Claiming Sensor is pretty risky, but with your Cop and a Tracker on the table, I also find that it's pretty hard to believe it's in this game. I could see him looking at that Tracker flip and choosing to use something that wouldn't quite CC a Cop to gain some towncred. I 100% agree that waffling on the accuracy of his claim looked townie, and deciding to VTL his partner would be surprising, but it is consistent with a bus. Still, I think those last two points are in his favor, even if the first two don't net him much.

VTL Whiteflame

I don’t like Whiteflame’s politiciany way of speaking. Neither Mag1c nor Thoth strike as me super scummy, it’s possible Mag1c is faking his whole anger shtick but it seems kinda a long time to be going faking this whole emotion crap.

I think it’s Whiteflame. He probably just isn’t the type to concede.

You're welcome to check out my previous games, but everyone here would tell you that this is just me, regardless of alignment. Call it "politiciany" if you want.

Can confirm whiteflame always sounds like Tuvok

Can confirm whiteflame always sounds like Tuvok

https://youtu.be/BQVDNX1e5ic?si=l3tI0kQgZ11rrHY2

At this point, I don't have much to add to the discussion. Both Mag1c and Magoroth have behavioral support for their being town. I think there's more mechanical reason to sus Magoroth, and based on strategy at least, I can understand Kohai's NK better from his perspective than Mag1c's. That tips the balance against him. Wryly seems to see the behavioral balance tilting more against Mag1c, and I'm unclear what Thoth thinks between the two of them apart from mainly focusing on the Sensor claim and sussing me over Rex's likely Tailored flip. We'll need to figure out a lynch within the next 15 hours, so it's time to make some decisions.

im typing up the magoroth scumcase

been working on it throughout the day

VTL Mag1cman

Yeah okay I’m done with Mag1cman screaming that I’m scum all the fucking time, at this point it just pisses me off “He’s oNly DoIng iT bEcAuSe Of tHotH"

You are lying, you ay I can be Town but you only give evidence why I’m scum. I don’t give a shit about your case on me

VTL Mag1cman

lol magoroth knows it's me or him

no pivoting to Whiteflame anymore, sorry

You are lying, you ay I can be Town but you only give evidence why I’m scum. I don’t give a shit about your case on me

ity's in the back of my head. but very far in the back. my case is that good. and you'd best start caring about it ;)

no pivoting to Whiteflame anymore, sorry

or throwing weird mech tinfoils at Thoth/Wryly :)

I'll take a pit stop to address 125, which I forgot:

You didn't. You sussed Shining here and a little here. Shining didn't sus you a whole lot except when he said it was "worth taking into consideration" that "three vanilla-like" roles may be too much, but then, Shining was less active than you.

In the part you are replying to, my point was that it makes no sense for Shining to make me his hard townread when I'm his teammate. My point isn't that I never sussed Shining, it's that Shining never distanced me. Which is unwise of Shining if I'm his teammate.

Not true; you could have thought there was a Cop because you possess roles which make a Cop necessary, such as Lawyer, or because Shining rolecopped me. You then saw Magoroth claim Sensor and, in searching for arguments to discredit him, thought to try and argue that the abundance of investigative roles was impossible and Magoroth was probably lying. This strikes me as a good way to try to get me to expose I was the Cop, if you didn't yet know which one of us it was, and a good way to try and get Magoroth mislynched.

Lawyer maybe, but you have to remember that earlier I missed lawyer because I wasn't thinking about lawyer self-targeting. A bit of solipsistic reasoning from me. If I had a lawyer, I would've asked about it and been forced to concede it as early as I conceded redirector. But that came much later than in my game solve, because I wasn't thinking about lawyer, because I don't have it. This is true for any role that I apparently could have self-targeted with.

And godfather is a no-go here, another role that mofiosos can have that tells them a cop exists. Just so you don't forget.

Petition not to be known as Little Miss Yes Motherfucker

It comes with a real point. You were so convinced that I was scum at the end of last DP, that a master plan to use your cop results would be pointless (especially if I outed it as well!); you'd continue to sus me no matter what. And the longer you go, thinking scum can only be me, the more this point is proven. It already has been tbh.