Ruyi Zhuan Mafia DP1

1. I'll have to take a look at this later, I understand your explanation, will have to see if it checks out considering what you said.
2. We vote her and force her to think.

Let me put that differently. Massclaiming here might be in town's favor, or it might be in scum's favor. I don't know. I have no past games to reference. Since we are all at least partially newbies here, we should play it safe. Playing it safe means no massclaims.

I say that because I am pretty sure that Rex invented this setup and has never run it before. Correct me if I am wrong.

We don't know what happens when scum gets favor so a conservative strategy I think is to reserve favor for strong town reads

We don't know what abilities they have or can get, but it would be shocking if scum did not gain and lose abilities with favor like town do, so this kinda goes without saying.

I still think it’s a good idea to mass claim. We get more information that way, not less. The Emperor can assign favour. I assume the scum can also influence favour in some way, e.g. through stealing favour from others. So if we mass claim we put all our cards on the table, and especially if we mass claim how much favour we have; we can make a decision on who should have how much favour. Scum can lie, but then they would have to use their role and prove it.

I still think it’s a good idea to mass claim. We get more information that way, not less.

There ain't no disagreeing with that. The question is who benefits the most from that information.

I assume the scum can also influence favour in some way, e.g. through stealing favour from others.

It wouldn't shock me, but unless I missed something, I don't think this is a safe assumption, and I also feel that it would go against this game's flavor of haremesses charming the Emperor.

Scum can lie, but then they would have to use their role and prove it.

There is more than one problem with this statement, but just to start somewhere, some roles are not tied to one alignment. Your own claim could be cover for a Lookout. Also, if scum have manipulative or redirective roles, we might end up failing to solve the puzzle even with all the supposed pieces on the table. The worst-case scenario for a mass-claim, and it's not a remote possibility, is that scum know the entire setup and we catch nobody, or, worse, snap the pieces together incorrectly and mislynch.

I assume when scum gets favour they just get some more powerful roles.

Probably some of the roles they get resemble or can mimic Town roles.

I really don't get why you would want to try to solve the game DP1, especially when you could end up fucking town over.

Let me put that differently. Massclaiming here might be in town's favor, or it might be in scum's favor. I don't know. I have no past games to reference. Since we are all at least partially newbies here, we should play it safe. Playing it safe means no massclaims.

Scum were given fake role claims in addition to fake character claims. Zero benefit to town in mass claiming.

I feel like Wryly is having trouble producing thoughts.

Compared to what? "Let's out the Empress"? Or "Let's not flavor claim because it would make scum feel bad"? Or "let's mass claim even though scum were provided with full fake claims"? Or "let me just out myself as a Watcher"? Idk, maybe there's an argument to be made that terrible ideas are better than no ideas, if that's what you're going for.

Since we're kind of just spinning our wheels and there's no point softing and not much to go on, I think our only way forward DP1 is just to find a way to generate as much behavioral data as possible while starving scum of role information to base an NK on.

ping for reads

How would you hand out favor right now if you were the Emperor

Forgot to @ you in that last question ^

Apologies, I fell off for a bit there.

Based on a quick "ISO" (Profile page > Mafia > Comments):

I've read through the back-and-forth between you two since you posted this, and while I think the points make sense, only the third one really has any bearing for me. It does seem like a pretty weak reason to sus Wryly specifically when it's clear a lot of players are struggling to come up with original thoughts to post. If the idea is just to pick someone and push them to post something more substantial, I guess I get it, but it comes off as pretty selective thinking.

I still think we should mass claim what abilities we have access to. If scum tells the truth, and they don’t use their fake claim, they will be forced to use their abilities either in a pro-Town way, rendering them kinda useless to them, or take a risk and use their abilities anyway in spite of lying about it.

I will go first. One of my abilities is Watcher.

I just don't get this thinking. Based on this, your best case scenario is one where scum are more limited in their pool of actions (assuming they have a confirmable role or someone else can confirm what they did), and that's only for one of their abilities. That is something, but it's also a massive risk to give so much role info away before the first NP, giving scum everything they need to inform NKs and manipulations. It doesn't help that some people may feel tempted to claim a role that they don't currently have access to, which could make any confirmation difficult if not impossible based on whether they get enough favor to use it.

I still think it’s a good idea to mass claim. We get more information that way, not less. The Emperor can assign favour. I assume the scum can also influence favour in some way, e.g. through stealing favour from others. So if we mass claim we put all our cards on the table, and especially if we mass claim how much favour we have; we can make a decision on who should have how much favour. Scum can lie, but then they would have to use their role and prove it.

As Thoth already mentioned, even with apparently town-aligned role claims, this thinking may only lead us astray. As for claiming the amount of favor we have, I'm not sure what the point of that is beyond clearly delineating between ranks and likely outing the Empress and Empress Dowager. Unless Vader sees some value in receiving that information (and I'm not sure there is any unless there's some way to verify the amount and check for inconsistencies), it's a non-starter for me since he's the one who's going to be delivering favor.

We don't know what happens when scum gets favor so a conservative strategy I think is to reserve favor for strong town reads

I think it's a given that Vader should be careful whom he gives favor. Giving scum favor is practically guaranteed to be a problem. Vader is restricted in how he can distribute favor this NP, though, so he has to have a minimum of 3 strong townreads (the 2,1,1 distribution mentioned in the OP).

I do want favor. I have roles under the empress/miller level. So hook a nigga up

So now you're saying that you only get the Miller role at higher ranks? I guess that makes sense since Imperial Noble Consort does include a passive ability, but weird that it's something you'd only gain access to when you're highly favored.

Scum were given fake role claims in addition to fake character claims. Zero benefit to town in mass claiming.

I think Magoroth's point was that pushing everyone to claim would limit night actions, but even if that's true (and I question that since someone could just claim their Even Night role or something they don't yet have access to), I don't think it's worth the cost of giving scum so much information so early.

Since we're kind of just spinning our wheels and there's no point softing and not much to go on, I think our only way forward DP1 is just to find a way to generate as much behavioral data as possible while starving scum of role information to base an NK on.

Yep, pretty much. I noticed you asked for reads earlier from everyone else and I think I just got left out of the pinged set. Once I'm done at work, I'll go back through the DP and derive a set myself.

So, I have this theory that people don’t really say what they mean when they speak. As an example, consider a political debate. You begin with people talking about something and the discussion keeps moving to unrelated points. Obviously the points themselves are not relevant, the participants are trying to argue something related to some idea that they have, which is at the heart of their arguments.

Along that note, it seems to me Wryly’s thoughts like “William is just generally scummy like this, it’s NAI” etc are not really particularly hard thoughts to come up with. It’s basically just restating stuff that is (apparently) true to Wryly’s knowledge, without much meat to it.

and, now that I accused Wryly of having a hard time coming up with thoughts, she has asked ppl for reads and that kinda shit. I kinda feel like this is “oh this person accused me of being scum for not doing X so I will now do X so they don’t scum read me anymore”.

i have no read on whiteflame as present. part of me wants to townread him but i think that’s probably just irrelevant (gut) and I will try to ignore it.

William means Magoroth. Its my MS name, apologies for the confusion.

MS name

Multiple sclerosis name? I didn't realize it was like a gang.

Vote Count

Mikal 1/6 - Thoth

Wryly 1/6 - Magoroth

Awesome5000 1/6 - Wylted

Roughly 22 Hours remaining before end of DP

Lol

No idea why I stick out to you in particular honestly, most of the people on the list haven't done much

Anyway, kindly eat me you bovine asinine concubine

I think Magoroth's point was that pushing everyone to claim would limit night actions, but even if that's true (and I question that since someone could just claim their Even Night role or something they don't yet have access to), I don't think it's worth the cost of giving scum so much information so early.

Must be having a brain fart, but limit night actions how?

I noticed you asked for reads earlier from everyone else and I think I just got left out of the pinged set. Once I'm done at work, I'll go back through the DP and derive a set myself.

Yeah left a few people out by oversight, danke

I don’t want to sound like a broken record, but I strongly, strongly believe we should mass claim our abilities immediately. We should find out all information about this setup as soon as possible. In a hidden setup scum can just claim whatever they want and it’s possible we will have “weird” night actions that make no sense and stump us. Please, for the benefit of my sanity, at least consider this.

I have had games where the scum claimed absurd shit and got away with it because the night actions were so confusing and SO MUCH shit was happening every night that made people susceptible to believinf pretty much anything. If we mass claim, we at the very least level the playing field and know what is possible and what isn’t.

and, even if we deny ourselves the use of our abilities by doing so, who cares? 10v2 is pretty balanced (assuming there are no Serial Killers). at the end of the day reads and discussion are the most important things in the game, not roles.

What makes you think I’m singling you out? :)

I thought you came across as “odd” to me due to the way you’re speaking and what you’re saying, almost like you’re trying to hide something, or really forcing yourself to post. I haven’t gotten vibes from most of the rest of the player base so I have to go with what I have thus far.

Of course, if you need some time to do stuff or whatever, I’m happy to provide it. If you’re Town it’s not particularly fun when someone scumreads you early on and demands that you “do” stuff to town tell. *looks at Thoth and awesome5000*

VTL Shining

Why not.