Ruyi Zhuan Mafia DP1

I don’t want to sound like a broken record, but I strongly, strongly believe we should mass claim our abilities immediately. We should find out all information about this setup as soon as possible. In a hidden setup scum can just claim whatever they want and it’s possible we will have “weird” night actions that make no sense and stump us. Please, for the benefit of my sanity, at least consider this.

I have had games where the scum claimed absurd shit and got away with it because the night actions were so confusing and SO MUCH shit was happening every night that made people susceptible to believinf pretty much anything. If we mass claim, we at the very least level the playing field and know what is possible and what isn’t.

and, even if we deny ourselves the use of our abilities by doing so, who cares? 10v2 is pretty balanced (assuming there are no Serial Killers). at the end of the day reads and discussion are the most important things in the game, not roles.

I just don't see a world where mass claiming "levels the playing field". It will expose all of our information to scum so that they can choreograph their moves perfectly, while revealing nothing to us except the fake characters and fake roles that the moderator provided scum with. Unless there are three scum, in which case we would expose a measly 1 fake claim that we could maybe recognize for what it is. The only benefit I see is a slim chance that scum were given fake claims we could disprove through verification. That is just not enough to offset the steep disadvantage of completely wiping the fog of war away for scum.

Not to mention the point someone (whiteflame?) brought up that many of our verifiable roles have not been unlocked yet.

It reveals enough to us thougg. I don’t know your abilities or anyone else’s. From my perspective almost anything is possible.

if we mass claim, the ten towns are probably going to tell the truth. That locks the list of possible roles into probably a rather short list, meaning that scum have a rather small pool of roles to claim. even if the claims are seemingly reliable, it basically says that they can’t just claim ANY role later down the line, so it becomes easier to catch them on a contradiction (or some obvious lie in mech that can be proven).

Example, let’s say hypothetically that I am scum and I see no protective roles. I claim Bodyguard or some thing. A bodyguard should visit an investigative role or someone who is very Towny. Why did I visit someone who is scummy?

On the other hand, consider the scenario where there is no mass claim. I can literally claim any role and get away with it if someone sees me visiting someone “scummy”, it might not even be suspicious.

and of course, there’s the corollary that claiming our abilities tells Vader who to give out favour to, there’s ways “roles” interplay and potentially confirm each other. or he cwn give favour to scum to see what they do with their abilities, that is also possible.

But why wouldn't scum just claim the fake roles Rex gave them, which they know are safe?

They may, but they might also not. In the absence of any claims, they might fake claim something other than the claim they were given to get out of a tough spot.

with a watcher, and who knows that other roles are out there, I’m not actually sure any claim is safe.

I notice Pie hasn't talked much. No matter. With the topic of Mago, I feel like he is REALLY pushing for mass claim and I'm not sure hes scummy for it. If I was his buddy, I would be telling him to chill. Still, we should mass claim no sooner than DP2, at least. DP1 is just madness.

I notice Pie hasn't talked much. No matter. With the topic of Mago, I feel like he is REALLY pushing for mass claim and I'm not sure hes scummy for it. If I was his buddy, I would be telling him to chill. Still, we should mass claim no sooner than DP2, at least. DP1 is just madness.

I think that he's either misguided town or scum who knows something about the setup that we don't. I suppose he could be scum playing for Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf cred. I don't know whether he does things like that or not.

They may, but they might also not. In the absence of any claims, they might fake claim something other than the claim they were given to get out of a tough spot.

In the absence of any claims, they might claim something that gets them caught, maybe the covers Rex gave them or maybe not, because they couldn't construct a claim that fits with the others. You seem so emotionally invested in this that you can only look at one side of the picture.

if we mass claim, the ten towns are probably going to tell the truth.

Numerically, this is more of an eleven-player game than a twelve-player game, so there are probably eight or nine townies other than the Emperor. I'm seeing this as a townslip.

Example, let’s say hypothetically that I am scum and I see no protective roles. I claim Bodyguard or some thing. A bodyguard should visit an investigative role or someone who is very Towny. Why did I visit someone who is scummy?

Redirector?

I notice Pie hasn't talked much. No matter.

That's NAI for Pie, and by NAI I mean Needs an Ambulance Instantly.

There are some details in my PM that I think are safe to claim and which I very much doubt Rex sabotaged like he talked about in the OP, but I don't really see how they would advance the game.

Must be having a brain fart, but limit night actions how?

Magoroth has already answered this from what I can see, but the long story short is that I don't think it's enough to warrant giving out this much role info. If everyone cooperates, we can assume both scum will claim their fake roles and we can't be sure just how many people will claim roles they currently have access to (see: Wylted who has already claimed a role that he's said requires more favor to be in play, Miller). So even among players who are telling the truth about their roles, they can always just say they used a different role from the one they claimed, leaving us in virtually the same predicament. Maybe Magoroth's thinking was to get everyone to claim the roles they would use, but that's not how he framed it and it would be even more dangerous to do so.

Alright, now that I have a minute, I'm going back through the DP to compile some reads. Those will be up tonight. We're at a little under 18 hours remaining in the DP, so everyone should be getting their thoughts together.

Alright I’m here. If anyone hasn’t gone skiing, they really should. It’s amazing

I meant full claims.

I'll just get the basic ones out of the way and delve into people who have posted more in a separate post.

awesome5000 - Beyond just coming in aiming for a lynch on Magoroth with limited explanation (others have given significantly better reasons) and questioning a connection elsewhere with Wylted, there's nothing to his posts. Null.

Banana - With one post just expressing confusion, there's not any substance to go off of for Banana, but her sudden appearance only after being tagged in the thread leaves me with a slight town lean. I could see a scum team taking advantage of the opportunity to look more townie, but that's where I'm sitting for now.

Vader - Your Imperial Highness. Mod-confirmed town.

Pie - Now up to 3 posts. Discussed game balance, pushed Wylted to fulfill his SOP claim, and apparently an avid skier. Null.

Mikal - Absent since 2 days ago, said he'd start posting more yesterday but never did. Tempted to scumread that, but he said he's moving and timelines for that are... shifty. Null.

Luna - Good reasoning for townreading Wylted, largely just expressed frustration with the mechanics of this game. Null.

...So now you're advocating for everyone to just massclaim their character and all their roles going into NP1? That's certainly bold, but that basically places everything on the table for scum, particularly dangerous if they have manipulative roles in play.

Whoever figures out this favor system and can tell me how it operates in a way my brain can understand would be great. Also keep the explanation concide

I think just reading it over a few times, a spreadsheet would help. The gist I got was that there are 5 ranks based on how much favor you have compared to others:

Concubine (less than 3 favor or 8th rank or worse)

Consort - (greater or equal than 4 favor + rank 4-7)

Noble Consort - (greater or equal than 6 favor + rank 2 and 3)

Imperial Noble Consort - (greater or equal than 8 favor + rank 1 ie most favor)

Empress - Appointed/Deposed by Emperor (Supa)

Now the other part is that each rank is connected to abilities. Concubines are Vanilla. Consorts have an odd or even ability. Noble consorts have both an odd/even ability. Imperial noble consorts get both odd/even and a passive. Empress gets both odd/even, passive, and a double vote

Once we get claims going, we can start populating the spreadsheet with starting favor and based on favors given by Supa

Just like a good and righteous Emperor, I will be taking bribes for favor. Venmo 100 dollars will get you unlimited favor from me. I just payed for a vacation so any donations welcome

On a serious note. This will be interesting

What if I say that if I have enough favor, I can basically carry town the entire the game

Maybe let’s talk about this D2. Thoth said I might be too emotionally invested in this and might not be able to see the other side of the equation, which might be true. Plus I’m a little embarrassed to be pushing this hard for a mass claim when I seem to be the only one who thinks it’s a good idea XD

This might be a dumb question. But do you have a read on Thoth/Wryly/Wylted

Fuck it. I am a miller.

Well, you know my thoughts on this. But based on OP, you get a passive role at Imperial Noble Consort

Maybe let’s talk about this D2. Thoth said I might be too emotionally invested in this and might not be able to see the other side of the equation, which might be true. Plus I’m a little embarrassed to be pushing this hard for a mass claim when I seem to be the only one who thinks it’s a good idea XD

Alright, we can revisit this later.

This might be a dumb question. But do you have a read on Thoth/Wryly/Wylted

I'm working through their posts now, so I'll have reads for them plus you and Shining before the night is up.

I'm at a loss as to what soft claim format we could use, if we decided to soft. We're all female, all with variable ranks subject to change, and all harem... ites? Haremites? No that sounds like hare mites. 

I don’t think soft claiming has any benefits at this stage with scum being given fake claims. I think the justification is going to be key here. If I die, which I usually do, focus on justification

I doubt Rex would force scum to “work their charms” on Vader so that he grants them night abilities. It’s likely that whatever night actions Vader can grant, scum have the ability to counter them (somehow).

People have roles in the game that can also give favor. But yes, it’s kind of common sense that scum have counters to town roles

I think actually, that the spiel “scum were given fake claims” kinda implies that whatever abilities they have are scummy and not Towny. Think Tailor, Framer, etc.

Well... here’s a thought. I assume Empress is Town. I also assume scum know which abilities are in the game, so it’s not like they would have to make up some night actions that aren’t possible, so there’s no value to the Empress hiding these night actions. 

I think Empress should instaclaim right now and tell us what abilities she has access to. Then, Vader decides on who to make the Empress. We can also determine who to give favour to, etc.

Honestly, maybe it’s a good idea to claim how much favour everyone has? Idk.

This post is just full of red flags for me. First, there’s no guarantee the Empress is a townie based on OP. The double vote is OP in the hands of scum. Ideally there should just not be an Empress as it’s too risky.

Second, if you think the Empress is town, it makes no sense for them to reveal themselves cause they become a target for scum.

Third, if you believe they’re town there’s no point in them claiming cause it purely benefits scum

Hold on, I didn't understand my role. I am only miller when I get a certain amount of favor. I guess I probably didn't even need to say anything

Thats really really odd.