Ruyi Zhuan Mafia DP1

I do wish that more game hosts would add elements that spark discussion on day 1 other than soft-claims and other kinds of flavor analysis.

this seems like an issue with the players and the meta, not the host. i think people prefer less host engangement

I don’t really want to soft-claim flavour just because it would feel like shit if I was Scum and got caught due to flavour. So I’d appreciate flavour not being a part of the discussion.

is soft claiming even necessary with two fake claims on the board?

I think the best method of attack is to not over reveal anything. So I don’t think I’m going to be as quick to jump to claims and counter because that could ultimately lead to some more manipulation. Probably going to make some commentary but not too much but I am keeping up and reading analysis

yeah probly best to keep your town and scum reads close to ur chest since it will help add confusion to the mafia and they wont know or predict who you are giving favor 2

Post #104: Voting Wryly for having "trouble producing thoughts". I could be missing something here, but Wryly hasn't seemed incoherent or unthinking this game. Maybe she's being inclined to post fluff, but I can hardly blame her since there's not that much information to work with. I don't think that Magoroth has contributed much more than Wryly has.

yeah i kind of thought that was a wierd take as well

I still think we should mass claim what abilities we have access to. If scum tells the truth, and they don’t use their fake claim, they will be forced to use their abilities either in a pro-Town way, rendering them kinda useless to them, or take a risk and use their abilities anyway in spite of lying about it.

I will go first. One of my abilities is Watcher.

telling scum what abiltiies we have seems like a terrible idea, what r u smokin

Let me put that differently. Massclaiming here might be in town's favor, or it might be in scum's favor. I don't know. I have no past games to reference. Since we are all at least partially newbies here, we should play it safe. Playing it safe means no massclaims.

i think the problem is scum will just lie, and depending on how good of fake claims they got, we really dont learn anything from this and just give scum a lot of info, i don't really like this idea much. and townies can be mislynched for having "scummy" seeming roles. also we are basically telling mafia what roles arent in the game by doing this making it ez for them to fake claim. not sure where the logic is in mass claiming at all

Compared to what? "Let's out the Empress"? Or "Let's not flavor claim because it would make scum feel bad"? Or "let's mass claim even though scum were provided with full fake claims"? Or "let me just out myself as a Watcher"? Idk, maybe there's an argument to be made that terrible ideas are better than no ideas, if that's what you're going for.

^^^^ 100%

I don’t want to sound like a broken record, but I strongly, strongly believe we should mass claim our abilities immediately. We should find out all information about this setup as soon as possible. In a hidden setup scum can just claim whatever they want and it’s possible we will have “weird” night actions that make no sense and stump us. Please, for the benefit of my sanity, at least consider this.

as much as i disagree with u here, it makes me feel u r town. no offense but ur fake claim in maga mafia was pretty bad and both of you had the opptunity to ask questions for characters, so i figure if u were scum you wouldn't want to give extra information like that if u didnt have to

if we mass claim, the ten towns are probably going to tell the truth.

Numerically, this is more of an eleven-player game than a twelve-player game, so there are probably eight or nine townies other than the Emperor. I'm seeing this as a townslip.

wait a sec how does he know there is ten towns?! why is that a town slip?

Wylted is horrible at fake claiming. If there is no Miller, he’s either town or this was a fake claim given by REF.

if he is lying i would say it was a fake claim, because it seems like there is a miller in almost every single game ive played, so it seems very risky to claim that otherwise

okay heres my reads

thoth- slight town, his posts seem authentic, ive agreed with a few of his points, and i like his backtrack on mago who seems like an easy target for scum to pursue a dp1 mislynch, shows hes being objectve with his thoughts.

pie- no firm read, he is giving townie vibes from his posts so far but i know hes very experienced player and probably the best player here so we should be skeptical of him

whiteflame- slightly similar to pie, ive agreed with a lot of his thoughts and posts so i dont have any early warning signs from him but hes also a very good player so is very likely to fool us, no firm read here either.

wylted- mostly null, i do like the miller claim, but i do think if hes miller its a fake claim from the mod because like i said before, ive seen a miller in almost all the games, i dont remember all of them so there might have been a few with no miller, but claiming miller also is banking on the idea that there isn't a cop which is also risky. maybe a slight town on him for now, but ultimtly null.

shining- their play is similar to their play from other2 games i played with them, lots vague remarks about how players should approach game mechanics but never really goes in depth on players behaviors. just obtuse statements like "we should do this" or "we shouldn't follow this meta" stuff that really doesn't add to the developmnt of the game but makes it seem like they are contributing. its hard to scum read him for this because he seems to do it as town to, but i dont think his play really varies as scum either, so i am actually scum reading this even if it is "NAI" as they say

Lunatic- came in made one statement about game being complex and that he thinks wylted is town. not really sure how to read him yet but he definitely needs to contribute more. i do think he is one who would be more active as scum, but for now ill just give him a null

mikal- also null based on activity. similar read to lunatic tho, he was pretty active in the game i was scum with him on, that game show one.

awesome5000- came in and voted mago, who seems like an easy target. doesnt really expand on why he thinks magos posts are bad, at least thoth did. im kind of suspicious of him so ill put him in my scum reads.

magoroth- the mass claim thing is either a really dumb mafia play that he thinks will work and out some roles, or its just genuine and townie of him. he wasnt that eager to claim in the maga game tho and when he did he kind of had a bad claim, so im thinking this could suggest he is town even if i disagree with most everything he has said so far.

wryly- i have town vibes form her, i dont know what her scum game looks like tho so im just kind of judging on the other two games i played with her and so far she seems like she is playing familiarly so i htink its likely shes legit this time, but ill stay open minded with her.

so yeah my top scum reads if i had to say them right now would be awesome5000, shining, and maybe one of lunatic/mikal who we definitely need to hear more from.

“So you’re fine with roles being revealed? That doesn’t make sense at all”

One is me saying it would be shitty for scum to be outed over flavour, the other is me pushing for a mass claim of all abilities so we know 1) what abilties are in the game (that way people cannot make up bullshit like “hey ackshually I’m this panda that shoots lasers out of it ass and I can kill people at night if they get roleblocked”, and if they do lie they have to stick to it to the end of the game), 2) people have to claim their roles, if later down the line multiple players effectively counterclaim them it makes it likely they were scum (or redirected but there are still ways to verify certain claims)

3) we can coordinate night actions

on the topic of 3), i think a different set of people should have favour “given” to them each night so people can prove their roles and whatnot

I fail to see what’s scummy or “atrocious” about my posting. You literally all saw my scum game and how difficult it was for me to post anything meaningful at all. This is not even close to that game.

Awesome hasn’t seen it but I would like to hear an explanation from him as to how my posting is “atrocious”.

On that note, Pie’s insistence thag I would die for claiming watcher might be a scum slip that Scum have a Ninja. Remember that scum have “fake claims” which implies their actual abilities are scummy; why give fake claims to, say, a Mafia Doctor?

I think he is sayig that with such fervour because he is scum and Ninja stuff is on his mind. Kinda like “ye dost protest too much”.

VTL ILikePie5

why give fake claims to, say, a Mafia Doctor?

The hell is a Mafia Doctor?

If a Mafia Doctor is just a regular Doctor flipped over the alignment axis, it's nothing but negative utility for scum, and then only if it gets Redirected. I guess it could be of some use to scum if there were a third-party night-killer like an SK.

That should have been redirected with a lowercase r. I meant any redirective role, not just Redirector.

If it were anyone but Wylted, I would’ve agreed with you, but the way he specified after that it was only when he got to Imperial is weird to me. I’m wondering if it was a fake claim to begin with.

I'll grant you that, wylted does like to make ballsy fake claims. I still lean that its probably legit based on the other mechanics of his role he mentioned with the leveling up and stuff being required to be a miller, which is a similar theme to mine. Could be mafia have the same mechanics, but yeah something to keep in mind I suppose. He could be just pulling a wylted. His claim isn't going to give him a pass for bad behavior or anything though.

So admittedly I just barely fully read my role PM. Before I kind of skimmed it because it was insanely long. But I have some information in my role that there is a mafia poisoner. Just wanted to get that out there, and apologize for not saying it sooner since I just barely realized it.

post 224 reeks of omgus btw. Noted.

What if I say that if I have enough favor, I can basically carry town the entire the game

I hope this is true, but if you are scum and this works I am insta lynching you from now on in every game going forward.

i lean town on him too but i wouldnt say he is confirmed or anything.

I wasn't suggesting he was.

Yeah magoroth looks pretty scummy to me as well. A lot of things people have already mentioned, the mass claiming idea (could just be a vehement philosophy thing, but I still think it pretty obviously favors mafia), the omgus both with thoth and pie, the asking about empress exposing themselves (same logic as the mass claim), asking people to tell how much favor they have, imo he just seems very focused on mechanics over behavior. If you look at his actual behavior reads the biggest thing he has said so far is that wryly seems "shy" and used it as a reason to FOS her. The reasoning for the pie push feels omgussy, and again based on pretty bad logic imo. I just really don't think Magoroth is acting like how I imagine a town player should act. I've been bit in the ass by this type of logic before though, so theres a chance he's just our new "khaosmage". If anyone here is from DDO you will get that reference and understand what I mean lol

Banana feels townie, lots of posts and analysis. Still feel wylted is townie. I really wanna just blindly trust pie based on what he said to supa about his role carrying the game. Thats the type of confidence I would expect out of a town pie who thinks he can genuinely break the game. Whiteflame seems normal to me so far, nothing really stands out. Thoth... is Thoth. Idk his posts always are odd to me but im fine with him for now. Wryly is fine. Shining seems normal.

My POE is Awesome, mikal, and Mago at the moment. Mikal I know is finishing up a move, he hasn't been able to play arc raiders with me in days because he is missing his power strip and the snowstorm in his area is really bad. He's generally a pretty busy guy. However I have played scum with Mikal before and have seen him say "Im not gonna post this day phase and come in hot next day phase" with activity as a general excuse, but also knowing mikal I know he can probably post from his phone. So I give him a parftial excuse for it, but again I have seen him use lurking as an actual strategy. But I am okay with looking into him day phase 2 as a matter of respect and curtesy to his IRL situation.

VTL awesome500

We need to hear more from you buddy. Current thoughts on the game?

I might expand on my list of reads later today, but more likely I won't, especially since it's mainly gutreads.

Vader: Mod-confirmed town.

Thoth: From my vantage point, also mod-confirmed town.

Pie: Null. From Pie, a move as bold as claiming that he becomes super-powerful if he gets enough favor is NAI. From some other players, I would probably townread it.

whiteflame: Null. He's contributed solid analysis, as he usually does on day 1 regardless of alignment.

Banana: Null. She made some decent points. Nothing she said swung my read of her in either direction.

Wylted: Solid town. He supposedly sucks at fake-claiming, but his teammates could have concocted something for him. Something in the back of my mind wonders if his claim of Miller upon reaching Imperial Noble Consort could be a cover for a Godfather he loses at that level. In any case, I feel okay about this claim. If wylted flips scum, I would become a lot more sus of Pie since Pie asking wylted to specify his SOP-claim could have been staged.

Magoroth: Slight scum. I think that pushing for a massclaim is majorly scummy, but some of the things he has said give me misguided-town vibes. The mention of ten townies (post #153) came off as a townslip, like he forgot that the Emperor doesn't count for voting purposes. If he's scum, that is some excellent method acting. Claiming an NAI role (Watcher/Lookout) is not a point in his favor.

Wryly: Slight scum. The points she makes look good, but something about the way she says them seems off to me. I almost feel like her reaction to Magoroth's massclaim suggestion came off as distancing.

Lunatic: Slight scum. This is a pure gutread, but the amount of text he spent bashing Magoroth in post #233 compared to the rest of his reads in #234 triggered my scum-pushing-for-easy-day-1-mislynch alert, even though I generally agree with his points. Then saying that his PoE is two inactives and the guy that people are scumreading also strikes me as possible mislynch-pushing. Other than that, I like his posts.

For everyone else, there is as yet insufficient information for a meaningful read.

wait a sec how does he know there is ten towns?! why is that a town slip?

I was thinking he might have forgotten that the Emperor doesn't have a vote, in which case ten towns would mean only one scum. Scum would have to be pretty good actors to feign that mistake. But, now that I think about it, he might have been including the Emperor as one of the ten towns.

VTL awesome

I'm uncomfortable with Luna's PoE, but I agree that we need to see more here.

Strange how everyone scumreads me but nobody wants to vote me. What kind of scum am I?!

“Focused on mechanic sober behaviour”

I have literally given multie reads?!?! What is this? Mamma mia