Ruyi Zhuan Mafia DP2

We're at 3 by my count, but fair enough to play it safe.

Before I went to sleep last night, I asked REF about the message someone would receive if they were Vanillaized. He said something like you are vanilla now. So he definitely wasn’t vanillaized. Now for the poison — it could be a gambit to survive the 2 DPs. Cause why would Town lynch someone who is already on the deathbed basically. And then later he claims he was cured or something magical happened.

Well, he's now saying his Watcher was disabled. Don't really get that, either. Didn't see an Enabler in Mikal's flip. Fair enough point on the potential gambit, even if that doesn't explain the apparent confirmation by Shining. He's not my main concern atm, but I'll at least consider it.

I disagree. Mago had already revealed his roles yesterday as RB, Watcher, Vengeful. He could’ve just restated what Mago said. I’d wager there’s one scum in between them. I don’t think they both can be scum.

I just don't see the point of confirming Mago's roles if Shining's scum. Yes, it was easy to do, but what's the point?

Can Mikal replace Awesome?

I'm debating if my role is supposed to tell me an investigative/healing/etc role visited me and Wryly tells him the name of the role, but mine seemingly told me a role name. I dunno. I town read Wryly nonetheless. Confusing.

Thats interesting... Mine was called Careful. What is the wording for your passive?

It says I see whatever roles target me on a given night phase. If you're saying you saw a visit from a Shadow Poisoner -- which sounds like a role -- that's pretty much the exact same thing.

Okay, I'll just out this. I have a passive that allows me to tell who visited me during the night, and something called a shadow posioner did. 

Interesting. Never heard of a Shadow Poisoner before. I presume REF didn’t say anything about you being poisoned, which could mean that the Poison Doctor visited you, you’re passively immune, or theres some other funky mechanic with it. But this is a direct CC of Mago. Two Poisoners don’t make sense at all

Well I've done a bit of a 180 on magoroth, was still pretty paranoid about him going into the night and was actually planning on doing exactly what wylted did and seeing if I could bait a reaction out of him with a fake result, because he was falling into a lot of scum tells yesterday, but there was still a big part of me with doubts. But with the poisoner targeting him and my role kind of confirming the existence of a poisoner, it stands to reason.

I still don’t buy Mago being Town. Being “Poisoned” seems like a ploy to avoid being lynched these next to days under the guise of, “I’m going to die anyway.”

Also Shining claimed that the Poisoner visited him. Unless there’s 2 Poisoners, someone is lying.

While I would agree in general that multiple investigation roles seems kind of powerful, I think we can give that argument a little bit of leeway considering its all based on favor, technically people only have a role or any power if vader grants it to them, so theres a world where none of these investigative roles are ever active at the same time. I am getting strong town vibes from pie also, might just be he is echoing a lot of my thoughts. Not feeling the best about wryly anymore based on her voting behavior last day phase, for how scummy mago was acting I think she was trying to save face by not voting him thinking him flipping town would make her look good, other people town reading mago had more reason for it IE mikal, but wryly was just non committal for the sake of it, and when I called her out on it, she kind of just dismissed it as a joke, so it suggests some inside information to me. That said the tracking result plus targeting a claimed miller does lowkey make sense so I am not full sussing her yet.

I think you’re dismissing the investigative argument too quick. A Cop, Watcher, Tracker, and Rolecop in the same game. Regardless of the favor mechanic, the odds of scum having at least one of the latter 3 makes sense for the game.

I just don't see the point of confirming Mago's roles if Shining's scum. Yes, it was easy to do, but what's the point?

Favor and town cred? They poison Mago, Shining town confirms him, and then Mago dies from poison, flips town, confirms Shining's rolecop results, and Shining ends up looking pretty good.

But I have lingering questions: why does scum Shining say the Shadow Poisoner visited him, and why does scum Shining fake claim a passive like that when Rex handed scum fake role cards that were perfectly safe to claim? Also, why did scum poison Mago at all? He's an easy mislynch target, why waste poison on him.

I still don’t buy Mago being Town. Being “Poisoned” seems like a ploy to avoid being lynched these next to days under the guise of, “I’m going to die anyway.”

Also Shining claimed that the Poisoner visited him. Unless there’s 2 Poisoners, someone is lying.

Theres something going on here we don’t know for sure, but it could be the Poisoner has a second role. Either way unless the strategy is for earth to directly try and save his scum buddy and tie them together, it’s not the smartest. And apparently mago dies at the end of next day phase anyway. So I am not sure lynching him would accomplish anything here. If he doesn’t die we can lynch him dp4, but two day phases makes that an easier possibility.

I think you’re dismissing the investigative argument too quick. A Cop, Watcher, Tracker, and Rolecop in the same game. Regardless of the favor mechanic, the odds of scum having at least one of the latter 3 makes sense for the game.

I am not dismissing it out of hand, of the investigation roles claimed I am highly suspicious wryly is a mafia scout atm. Still weighing if her reasoning for tracking Mikal makes sense here.

I was targeted by a shadow posioner. Isn't it more likely the posioner can target someone, and whoever they visit gets poisoned? idk

What makes you say that?

Can you ask Rex to clarify if you are indeed poisoned? Maybe the poisoner has two actions and visited both you and margo. Just trying to make sure this isn't a CC situation because two poisoners is a bit crazy scum sided.

Scum having an NK and Poisoner is also broken imo. It makes sense if the Poisoner activates with more favor. But NP1 having both is broken. This train of thought has be sussing Shining A LOT more.

wait, if magoroth is poisoned what's the point of lynching him

There is none, unless we think he’s lying. In that case, if there are 2 scum, one of them is completely off the board. He’s already snaked his way out of DP1. The consecutive DPs make it extremely dangerous for scum as their odds of getting lynched skyrocket. And assuming he’s lying, he could just say he was “gambiting” like he already has. He’s already done it before and everyone believed him.

Why do you think mikal was targeted for the night kill?

Cause he was the one preventing the lynch on Mago. I think it was a WIFOM kill. He’s been running it the entire game

im suspicious of big players like you pie wylted whiteflame mostly, I would be very surprised if there was not scum in you guys, but wylted is probably town at least

Comes with the reputation sadly

also since mikal was the empress and died does that mean vader appoints a new empress today? doesnt empress get a double vote?

They’re 2 different things.

Scum having an NK and Poisoner is also broken imo. It makes sense if the Poisoner activates with more favor. But NP1 having both is broken. This train of thought has be sussing Shining A LOT more. 

I can confirm a poisoner though broken or not. And I agree it is a bit busted I am hoping it is x shot or something to balance out.

Tough decision because I had no idea who even had enough favor to be worth tracking, plus Mago had run around in circles waving a flaming torch and accusing everyone and their grandmother, so there were a wide range of possible scum who would be on their guard, but Mikal had said several of his roles overlap with Mago's and I decided to investigate that soft CC, and I figured Mago would probably be mislynched before the end of the game so why waste an investigative on him.

Didnt you townread Mago at the end of the previous DP?

VTL Shining

I have a passive called Perceptive that activates at Imperial Noble level. It lets me see which roles target me in a given night. This sounds identical to the passive Shining is describing, although he's claiming he had immediate access to it in addition to Rolecop, which would mean he would have to have started with high favor or be the Empress.

Well well well

I targeted Magoroth because he was constantly lying and pushing a mass claim. I investigated him so that I either catch him in a lie or I at least confirm his roles so we don't end up barking up the wrong tree like we usually do.

So you scumread him in DP1?

Isn't it just as likely shadow poisoner works by visiting someone, and whoever the target visits gets poisoned instead? Would make sense, especially since I wouldn't have known if it wasn't for my passive.

Favor and town cred? They poison Mago, Shining town confirms him, and then Mago dies from poison, flips town, confirms Shining's rolecop results, and Shining ends up looking pretty good.

But I have lingering questions: why does scum Shining say the Shadow Poisoner visited him, and why does scum Shining fake claim a passive like that when Rex handed scum fake role cards that were perfectly safe to claim? Also, why did scum poison Mago at all? He's an easy mislynch target, why waste poison on him.

Why would I want favor when its obvious I am already Empress? Also, why would I bother announcing the shadow poisoner at all? If its an issue of town cred, I argubly did that with the rolecop.

Well, he's now saying his Watcher was disabled. Don't really get that, either. Didn't see an Enabler in Mikal's flip. Fair enough point on the potential gambit, even if that doesn't explain the apparent confirmation by Shining. He's not my main concern atm, but I'll at least consider it.

It’s a role confirmation at best, not affiliation confirmation.

I just don't see the point of confirming Mago's roles if Shining's scum. Yes, it was easy to do, but what's the point?

Towncred. But he also backtracked from that a little by saying the Poisoner visited him. And he was CCed on that as well

I really didn't and still don't know what to make of Magoroth. He played a bad DP1 and if he had been lynched, I would probably be okay with it. But by NP1 I felt like he was a mislynch target and wanted to avoid that, or confirm him as scum.

I can confirm a poisoner though broken or not. And I agree it is a bit busted I am hoping it is x shot or something to balance out. 

That’s what I’m thinking. It’s probably restricted behind a lot of favor. So it doesn’t make sense for scum to have it NP1.

Well, they have it jackass. Are both Mago and I lying scum?

Isn't it just as likely shadow poisoner works by visiting someone, and whoever the target visits gets poisoned instead? Would make sense, especially since I wouldn't have known if it wasn't for my passive.

Thats unlike anything we’ve ever seen before. I mean yes anything possible, but this just seems like TMI

Well, they have it jackass. Are both Mago and I lying scum?

I think behaviorally, Mago is scum. Mechanically I think you’re scum. Are yall scum together? I don’t think so.

I don't know what to tell you Bub. Just reporting the information I have.

Wryly isn't scum?

Wryly isn't scum?

I sus her too based on her Tracker claim