The Legend of Zelda: The Mafia Game (DP2)

Pie’s was opportunistic last DP, and he’s trying to be opportunistic here. Let’s get his full claim. And then move onto Lunatic.

What if both of you are town here and just being stubborn knuckleheads?

"If you were my sons I would knock your heads together and lock you in a room until you remembered you are brothers!" -Catelyn Stark, GOT

I have no idea what that was and it also rubbed me the wrong way. If I had to guess, I suspect at least some of those people were just focused on getting a lynch at that point and there was such limited time to do it that they just went along with the flow. Doesn't explain why you, specifically.

Yeah I saw you questioned that, gave me major town vibes on you. I feel as scum you would have been happier to buy into that.

Thoth, probably. Magicman, no. I don’t understand how yall are falling for this. This is exactly the shit Mikal pulled before in Alien Mafia. If you thought you were a CC, you would check your PM 5 times, not just hammer instantly. Especially if the character claimed was Link

To qoute the great "Hannah Montana". Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has those days!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK_Gcl4yT6w

To be fair also Mikal is a very different player from mharman, mharman is more careful as scum. We literally just saw his scum game in Ted Lasso, this was not even close to a strategy he used. He was very controlled and calculated there. I think as town you are less likely to focus on your own role, and more eager to get in and scum hunt also. Scum are usually more focused on their PM and it's structure. And if you are not majorly into the zelda franchise I could see you getting zelda and link mixed up.

Just my take here.

Lynch all liars boss man

You didn't want to lynch wylted in the last game for baiting magoroth out with his fake result. This lynch all liars has historically been used so inconsistently that is laughable its even still being used as a term.

and again, if you think you’re Link, you’re going to vote that, not Unvote. Notice the sleight of hand tactic from Pie: He appeals to what people would’ve done in his shoes, but in not in the shoes of someone who thought their PM said they were Link.

this isn’t honest argumentation.

lets get his claim

Thats just normal pie stubborness, he would do it as town or scum. The Godly pie can never be wrong!

The case against Lunatic:

At the start of DP1, he did nothing but post fluff, no analysis or commentary, absolutely nothing outside of his argument with Thoth, then disappeared. At this time, some people were inactive, so remember that scum had an incentive to hide like this.

I never "Hide" as scum. Can you find a scum game where I have? If anything I am more active. At the point when you were making this accusation also there was fairly limited activity to go off of in dp1. Like even if I was trying to build a wagon on someone to get pressure going it would have been me making a mountain out of a molehill, and I didn't even really see any molehill's yet to work with even if I wanted to do that.

When he reappears, he drops this:

I don't have a lot of reads so far, its been kind of an inactive day phase. Mharman feels good, no red flags from pie yet, whiteflame is just inactive. Wylted seems okay, thoth I can't take seriously because of his wylted hate campaign, Banana feels very afk other than a few odd posts, but ive been inactive too, Rex hasn't said a ton, mago doesn't really stand out, yeah kind of a bad dp1 so far

These are nothingburger reads. Really not impressive at all.

Wasn't really trying to impress anyone, those were my actual thoughts and feelings at the time with very limited things to go off of.

Anyways, yeah my take here is that pie and mharman are both probably town here and just super tunnel vision on each other right now. I can see pie getting steamed here and combined with the fact that he was apparently blocked or something might be fueling his conspiracy against mharm considering he was sussing mharm, but at the same time it could also just be coincidence, or maybe even set up to make mharm look bad my scum. This feels like town passion though, something we didn't see from pie in the last game, and it does stand out to me as a town tell because this is how pie acts as town. Same with mharman, I genuinely buy that he made the mistake there, and I don't really hold that over him. I was half asleep when I posted the comment that it was "sus" that he pushed me towards the end there, and I was genuinely peeved about that when I saw it since I wasn't online to defend myself and I was just hours before that, but I can buy that mharman is town here. Also I think scum mharman could definitely find easier lynch targets than "pie and luna" if he was scum. For him to be targeting us he must be pretty genuinely suspicious of us, because scum mharman knows there is no world where those are easy lynches to obtain, so why take the path of most resistance? If he is scum, props to him because this is a major wifom argument that literally no one besides me is making, so if this was his plan, it could have easily backfired.

So yeah I'd prefer not to go after either of these two atm.

I am actually wanting to pressure Rex. Rex hasn't really taken a lot of solid stances, and his joke at the end of the day phase "Never change guys" while funny, kind of rubbed me the wrong way that he was there and making fun of people's decision while not really contributing his own decision. I went back and read all his posts, he had a clear indication of wanting to push magoroth early, later said he would be down to lynch mago or thoth based on little contribution, and only fully voted thoth after the "CC" debacle. Then he doesn't post until EOD, where he makes the joke. IDK I am getting the vibes that he is around and aware of the game but going with the flow rather than trying to solve it. His vote was the scummiest on the thoth wagon imo, and the fact that he never stated an opinion change on it despite mharman changing his claim, or really commenting it at all makes is seem more scummy in hindsight.

So I may be the minority here, but I'd rather redirect pressure from pie/mharm to rex here.

VTL rex

Rex feels like his normal town meta is just solely on vibes, but I don't care for the wagon on Thoth. Harder to read because he is almost as inactive as Shining. Still null.

What "vibes" do you think he would be giving off as scum? He may have been scum again but I can't remember a scum game off the top of his besides Terraria.

Whiteflame feels pretty town to me, I liked his nuanced take on pie/mharman feud too.

Wylted feels okay as well. Not sure about mago, I still really only know his town game from last game, but I will say he feels slightly different from that game.

MY sleep schedule is so fucked, I got to fix it before I work on tuesday. But it is also limiting how I can interact with people. I usually try to sleep from 8am-4pm MST, but yesterday I didn't sleep til 3PM and just woke up at 1 AM lol

And Lunatic should remember another game (Paper Mario) where I failed to read my PM properly.

This is a bit suspicious to me. It reads like a scum player planning out an outrageous action and having an example from a past game in the holster to justify it.

I have no idea what that was and it also rubbed me the wrong way. If I had to guess, I suspect at least some of those people were just focused on getting a lynch at that point and there was such limited time to do it that they just went along with the flow. Doesn't explain why you, specifically.

Yeah, I saw that after I got home last night and it was an odd push that I also didn't understand.

I won’t deny I made a dumb mistake but it’s not unfeasible that someone misreads his PM on a skim and then claims from memory instead of double checking. Especially when you have a case study on record of him doing it in a previous game (Paper Mario Mafia).

Again with this, rubs me the wrong way.

Pie’s was opportunistic last DP, and he’s trying to be opportunistic here. Let’s get his full claim. And then move onto Lunatic.

I think they were just trying to get a lynch off. I know Luna for a fact hates no lynches, I do as well. If you wanted someone else, you should have driven the wagon.

Im getting pissed excuse I should be widely townread at this point for what was an obvious mistake that matches no scum incentive, and yet, people are somehow buying even a small percent of Pie’s arguments.

Okay this argument sucks and it hammers home what Pie has been saying about WIFOM. If you expected to be widely townread for an action which also eliminated a power role that means you have a huge amount of incentive as scum to take that action.

Going to read through the rest of the DP after taking a shower.

not being there for EoD, but then randomly showing up just after Thoth was hammered

This isn't an argument for anything. Pretty much everyone makes a point to check in on the thread before EoD in case there's a need for a hammer.

Can anyone recall a game where Magic was lynched as scum? Did he rage this hard?

This is a bit suspicious to me. It reads like a scum player planning out an outrageous action and having an example from a past game in the holster to justify it.

look at the incentives dumbass. Hella opportunistic

Could you engage with the meat of the argument instead of trying to pick at the points you think are weaker?

This is Pie level argumentation

Can anyone recall a game where Magic was lynched as scum? Did he rage this hard?

I could give you some but then “Mharman is justifying his rage using past games!”

this is a Kafka Trap, a well-known circular argument that presupposes my guilt. If there’s no precedent, I’m scum, if I cite a precedent, then my defense is what makes me guilty.

I don’t like how Rex let things play out for the start of this DP, only to jump in now.

i picked this up from MU guide to scumhunting, but scum likes to have most of their activity in the mid phase. They don’t like being around at the SoD to draw attention and (depending on how the wagons are going) they will disappear near the end of the phase.

You didn't want to lynch wylted in the last game for baiting magoroth out with his fake result. This lynch all liars has historically been used so inconsistently that is laughable its even still being used as a term.

He was scum last game, to be fair.

I am actually wanting to pressure Rex. Rex hasn't really taken a lot of solid stances, and his joke at the end of the day phase "Never change guys" while funny, kind of rubbed me the wrong way that he was there and making fun of people's decision while not really contributing his own decision. I went back and read all his posts, he had a clear indication of wanting to push magoroth early, later said he would be down to lynch mago or thoth based on little contribution, and only fully voted thoth after the "CC" debacle. Then he doesn't post until EOD, where he makes the joke. IDK I am getting the vibes that he is around and aware of the game but going with the flow rather than trying to solve it. His vote was the scummiest on the thoth wagon imo, and the fact that he never stated an opinion change on it despite mharman changing his claim, or really commenting it at all makes is seem more scummy in hindsight.

Me taking a solid stance DP1 is pretty rare, I mostly just try to keep wagons going to generate activity, but last DP was kind of tough to do that. The strong scum read I got on Shining in Ted Lasso is not the norm for me DP1, usually I just wagon the least towny players from my pov. Last DP, that was Mago and Thoth. Friday night I was out, I basically popped into the thread on me phone before ten to see if anyone needed to be hammered. Saw what happened and was a bit flummoxed by it. I did not 'fully vote Thoth after the CC debacle', no idea where you got that idea. I was the first person on the wagon, and left for the city shortly after casting my vote, once Pie indicated he was not down for a Mago wagon. The CC thing happened hours later.

I could give you some but then “Mharman is justifying his rage using past games!”

this is a Kafka Trap, a well-known circular argument that presupposes my guilt. If there’s no precedent, I’m scum, if I cite a precedent, then my defense is what makes me guilty.

Calm down, I'm looking for a reason to town read you when I see a lot of reasons to scum read you.

This is a bit suspicious to me. It reads like a scum player planning out an outrageous action and having an example from a past game in the holster to justify it.

to be clear, this is the Kafka Trap

Can anyone recall a game where Magic was lynched as scum? Did he rage this hard?

and this a set up for another one

why in the world would Rex be asking for past games, if past examples could just be me justifying my play with past examples?

No you’re fucking not lol

I don’t like how Rex let things play out for the start of this DP, only to jump in now.

i picked this up from MU guide to scumhunting, but scum likes to have most of their activity in the mid phase. They don’t like being around at the SoD to draw attention and (depending on how the wagons are going) they will disappear near the end of the phase.

It's called sleeping. I humbly apologize for not being conscious in the wee hours of the morning. I was running around preparing for an apparently overhyped blizzard last night, the DP wasn't posted before I crashed so I reread the end of the last DP and then went to sleep.

Everyone has an excuse I don’t care. Your logic on me is utter garbage

and this a set up for another one

why in the world would Rex be asking for past games, if past examples could just be me justifying my play with past examples?

I wasn't specifically asking YOU. I was more asking other players who have more extensive experience with you. I didn't play much on DART. I don't think I've ever lynched you as scum that I can recall.

I notice you didn’t even ask for games where I was town and raged btw

You going to hand waive away past games anyway, just like you just did. And like you’re ignoring the meat of my defense.

When I showed up to the thread, Thoth was not in my town pile. He was absent from the thread, so he hadn’t claimed yet. He was at L-1. We were in low time.

These factors combined, I could’ve easily hammered, but I didn’t.

Because I've played with you as town where you had wagons run on you. I KNOW you rage as town. I know you play well as scum, as you did in Ted Lasso. I DON'T know how you act when people lynch you as scum.