The Legend of Zelda: The Mafia Game (DP2)

The Luna/WF 'you are both town' refrain also seems borderline TMI. I really don't see where that reasoning is coming from, and if you did sincerely believe that, why not pressure Magic for a claim more resolutely instead of letting the farce drag on forever? Demanding that Pie claim was an on-its-face absurd demand, as Pie didn't accidentally hammer someone last DP. It felt like building town cred, being the 'voice of reason', and then being able to lead town afterwards because they both knew how this would turn out. Also, it was predictable that playing that role was allowing the conflict to spiral out of control and consume a lot of energy by giving Magic false hope that he could argue his way out of the problem.

If we claim at all, we should only claim characters. Won’t do us much good, but it’s not as bad as outing potential power roles.

It seems like the safe route to take here, though if scum do have fake claims, you're right that it won't do us much good to get them.

Still working, and have a lot of shoveling to do later. Blizzard turned out to be late, not overrated.

Hopefully you don't have to dig yourself out too much with this snow. Barely got any here.

I'm Impa. The reason I thought Link and Zelda were town early is because my PM pretty unequivocally aligns me with both of them, I'm a nursemaid and protector to Zelda and a mentor to Link, being an important recurring character throughout the series.

Hey, another character I recognize, this one from Ocarina. Honestly hadn't realized she was a recurring character, but then she apparently looks pretty different across games. Nursemaid but not Doctor? Hmm...

One thing I picked up rereading DP1 is that the Banana kill, which originally did not make sense to me, is making a lot more sense. She claimed that her role was confirmable at the end of the DP and would town confirm her. I had forgotten about that. The only reads she gave were a very tepid townread on me. And looking at the soft claims list, she claimed a female character, and Link was outed and lynched at the end of the DP. So scum could have been hunting for power roles/possible confirmed townies/Zelda, killing within softclaimed POE (that would be WF, me, and Banana). I don't think the argument that the kill was driven by an incompetent scum team holds water in light of this. This makes me scum read WF a bit.

So in other words, the takeaway is the same as what several of us have already said, that Banana was likely the target because she claimed a confirmable role. I said as much earlier. Not sure how that puts the spotlight on me, especially since it's been the prevailing opinion on why she was killed. This is such a weak sus, man.

Luna's post also sticks out to me, where he accused me of 'only voting Thoth after the CC debacle', something that after the rereading the DP makes zero sense, I wasn't even online then. And he also accuses me of lurking and popping in to crack a joke at the end of the DP. Why would he think I was lurking and have a genuine mistake/false memory of me voting Thoth after the CC? Especially when the whole drama was about Thoth being hammered by magic immediately after the false CC? This whole paragraph just reads as contrived to me, and not coming from any normal recollection of those events that someone would have.

I didn't get Luna's point about you VTLing Thoth only after the CC was discussed, and I'm not one to talk about the timing of posts at the end of the last DP given how I came in at the end, but the timing of your gif earlier when Mago claimed he saw me visit Banana felt pretty opportune.

The Luna/WF 'you are both town' refrain also seems borderline TMI. I really don't see where that reasoning is coming from, and if you did sincerely believe that, why not pressure Magic for a claim more resolutely instead of letting the farce drag on forever? Demanding that Pie claim was an on-its-face absurd demand, as Pie didn't accidentally hammer someone last DP. It felt like building town cred, being the 'voice of reason', and then being able to lead town afterwards because they both knew how this would turn out. Also, it was predictable that playing that role was allowing the conflict to spiral out of control and consume a lot of energy by giving Magic false hope that he could argue his way out of the problem.

Literally kept telling them to just claim and get it over with, and when I did eventually put pressure on Mag1c to claim, he self destructed. The argument that we should have done it sooner when he was already resolute in his demand that Pie claim first is ridiculous. And this notion that our seeing what was apparently a town vs. town argument for what it was somehow implicates us is beyond me as well, particularly as it would be a hazard as scum to reduce POE by the two players who were actively arguing that the other was scum.

So in other words, the takeaway is the same as what several of us have already said, that Banana was likely the target because she claimed a confirmable role. I said as much earlier. Not sure how that puts the spotlight on me, especially since it's been the prevailing opinion on why she was killed. This is such a weak sus, man.

I just kept reading over and over that the Banana kill means the scum team isn't competent. I don't buy that, I think a competent team could have killed her. People were restricting their POEs based on that and I think it's a mistake. Any sus of you will be a weak sus at this point of the game, you don't make obvious scum slips. But your POEs and arguments seem to most align with what I see as the overall scum 'push' this DP. Wylted and Mago seem to be going more against the grain and exploring options, Mago pushed back against the push for claims. Pie I tepidly town read because the death tunnel on Magic makes sense from my perspective. I don't think he's beyond faking that but it's just a long shot for me to see him as scum based on how he's acted this game, who he's pushed and how he's reacted. Thoth I think is town because he's Link. Luna seems sus to me and you just stick out part from POE and part from you generally aligning with him at crucial moments. It could be Luna/Mago. Maybe it could be Wylted, but I don't think he's playing scummy, he's very erratic and yolo-ish, which from what I've seen is his town meta.

the timing of your gif earlier when Mago claimed he saw me visit Banana felt pretty opportune.

It was a joke in response to a dramatic moment.

The argument that we should have done it sooner when he was already resolute in his demand that Pie claim first is ridiculous.

Why? He held out hope that that ridiculous demand would be honored precisely because he felt backed up by two prominent players. If he had been met with a solid wall of 'claim, now' then entire thing would have been over in the first few hours and town could have moved on.

And this notion that our seeing what was apparently a town vs. town argument for what it was somehow implicates us is beyond me as well, particularly as it would be a hazard as scum to reduce POE by the two players who were actively arguing that the other was scum.

TMI shouldn't be beyond you. I also don't think it reduces POE in such a hard way. Scum know both players are town - both players claim, you kill the one with the better role, that only eliminates one from POE going forward and you make sure he has the least troublesome role, or you may even pocket one or both since you defended them. If one has a scummy claim you can then say you've had a change of heart without too much justification. And in both outcomes, when the dust clears you look good for being the voice of reason. It's a solid play as scum.

I’m here

Might be wise to get a claim out of Thoth. Not that I don’t townread him, but him disappearing after being revived and seemingly being town read (?) makes me uneasy.

He did this last game where he was town too, which is honestly annoying

How common of a role is governor on this site?

I’d say it’s relatively common. Not as common as like Cop, but I’d say it’s not unknown

If we claim at all, we should only claim characters. Won’t do us much good, but it’s not as bad as outing potential power roles.

I like this post from Mago, though any wagon is bound to reveal a full claim at some point

I'm Impa. The reason I thought Link and Zelda were town early is because my PM pretty unequivocally aligns me with both of them, I'm a nursemaid and protector to Zelda and a mentor to Link, being an important recurring character throughout the series.

I like the claim. Impa makes sense to be in the game. The hard part is fake claims, which there is no information on unfortunately

Curious about this thought process. Is your character borderline evil in-universe?

I retracted this right after. But to answer your question, no.

Thinking now though, If I were redesigning the game to allow character claiming, the easiest workaround would be to provide scum fake claims.

I don’t think WF/Luna is a pairing here. I don’t think both scum would refuse to take sides between me and Magic. At best one of them is scum.

I’m comfortable with my Town read of Mago especially after that recent post about not claiming roles. The solo Vanilla claim also makes sense to me. And with scum likely being provided fake claims based on the redesign, Vanilla doesn’t strike me as a legit fake claim

Wylted still feels town to me based on his neurotic ramblings. He also can supposedly confirm himself, so I’m fine waiting for that as well.

After rereading the DPs and the signups, I found something interesting that Kohai said: “The problem is once obvious characters like Link, Zelda, and Impa start claiming you can get a solid town core just from claims.”

I think based on the above comment, the redesign inherently makes one of Thoth and REF scum. Probably one scum in there. If it’s Thoth I’m going to lol.

I townread WF more than Lunatic. My focus today is Thoth/REF

You both need to full claim

I just kept reading over and over that the Banana kill means the scum team isn't competent. I don't buy that, I think a competent team could have killed her. People were restricting their POEs based on that and I think it's a mistake.

I agree with this much.

your POEs and arguments seem to most align with what I see as the overall scum 'push' this DP. Wylted and Mago seem to be going more against the grain and exploring options, Mago pushed back against the push for claims. Pie I tepidly town read because the death tunnel on Magic makes sense from my perspective. I don't think he's beyond faking that but it's just a long shot for me to see him as scum based on how he's acted this game, who he's pushed and how he's reacted. Thoth I think is town because he's Link. Luna seems sus to me and you just stick out part from POE and part from you generally aligning with him at crucial moments. It could be Luna/Mago. Maybe it could be Wylted, but I don't think he's playing scummy, he's very erratic and yolo-ish, which from what I've seen is his town meta.

At least that's a pretty clear set of reads, though I still don't get the mentality behind your read on me. I gave my reasoning for having you in my POE already - that being a common thread among many player's reads doesn't make it scummy, especially since many of the people you're townreading agree.

Why? He held out hope that that ridiculous demand would be honored precisely because he felt backed up by two prominent players. If he had been met with a solid wall of 'claim, now' then entire thing would have been over in the first few hours and town could have moved on.

Would love to believe that. I was calling for a resolution of the dual claim early on, but that didn't seem to gain any traction. Maybe Mag1c would have behaved differently under early direct pressure, but he didn't seem likely to move on the issue.

TMI shouldn't be beyond you. I also don't think it reduces POE in such a hard way. Scum know both players are town - both players claim, you kill the one with the better role, that only eliminates one from POE going forward and you make sure he has the least troublesome role, or you may even pocket one or both since you defended them. If one has a scummy claim you can then say you've had a change of heart without too much justification. And in both outcomes, when the dust clears you look good for being the voice of reason. It's a solid play as scum.

The concept of TMI isn't the problem here, it's the application. If getting both claims solidifies them as town, then they're more likely to be protected during the night as well, so no, there's no guarantee of removing someone from POE. And suddenly changing a strong behavioral read because someone's claim looks a little sus would also stand out.

I think you should just full claim, dude.

If there’s sufficient interest, I will claim. I am thoroughly surprised by Mharman’s flip.

Why are you that surprised? I thought you were just asking him for a claim so you could "make that determination" like you said in post 330, now you are acting like you are confident he was scum and are acting surprised?

Luna's post also sticks out to me, where he accused me of 'only voting Thoth after the CC debacle', something that after the rereading the DP makes zero sense, I wasn't even online then.

I didn't say you voted him "because" of the CC debacle, just that you voted him "after" it, meaning I thought you were taking advantage of a mislynch. Regardless, I double checked and yeah it looks like he claimed after you voted him. However you still never unvoted after any of that and then made your little joke after it was kind of clear that we had made a mistake and mislynched based on mharmans fuck up.

And he also accuses me of lurking and popping in to crack a joke at the end of the DP. Why would he think I was lurking

I suppose lurking is part of it, but it's not really the lurking, its the obvious lack of contribution combined with convienent votes. You are always here an opertune time to make some silly little comment but don't seem that eager in creating pressure and or making things happen. And you, as a more experienced player, get less of an excuse for that than anyone. That said I am opened minded and if you are genuinely just busy, thats one thing, but I would like to see a consistent effort from you before I can determine that you are town personally.

Why are you that surprised? I thought you were just asking him for a claim so you could "make that determination" like you said in post 330, now you are acting like you are confident he was scum and are acting surprised?

What do you mean? I said it was a possibility that he was town, but I scumread him and wanted him to claim because I scumread. If his claim was towny, which it was in hindsight, I would’ve backed off. He just imploded. If he had just claimed Zelda, I would’ve backed off.

Wryly has subbed in for Thoth. Please do not discuss replacement.

Thank you!!!!

Have you been following the game?

Thank you for agreeing to sub in for this! If you need info on what's gone down so far (hopefully you have some insight already), I can give you a breakdown.

Heya Wryly. Thanks for subbing in.

Just a note, I likely won’t be around for EoD. It’s at 4am my time. Maybe if I wake up super early, but I wouldn’t count it.

Heyo guys o/

Got a nurse coming out I gotta meet, will post more afterward

Preliminary thoughts, was surprised people tried to push the argument that a scum!Mag1c would have decided to fake-CC Thoth after the Link claim. Smart play as scum would be to back off the wagon at that point and switch targets. Going for an "oops hammered him by accident bc I misread my PM" is such an unnecessarily dumb and risky scum play, especially if he was just gonna go on to fake claim a character whose gender was opposite the one he initially softed, that I thought this would push him more into everyone's townlean (albeit not townlock) pile.

There were a lot of comparisons to when Mikal did it in Alien mafia, but the important distinction there is that Mikal didn't counter-claim the person he hammered under the pretense that he misread his PM. He saw that Kohai had miscounted the votes and took the opportunity to pretend he thought he was just putting the guy at L-1. A lot smarter and safer for scum.

Have you been following the game?

Been skimming, laughing, etc. Gonna take me a while to get fully caught up

Thank you for agreeing to sub in for this! If you need info on what's gone down so far (hopefully you have some insight already), I can give you a breakdown.

Np, they couldn't find anyone else on short notice. and yeah that would be much appreciated

I think Wryly is likely Town. I just realized Thoth basically pushed Wylted all day for his Esptein PfP, then disappeared and basically fucked off afterwards. That doesn’t sound like scum behaviour to me, more like disinterested Town behaviour.

Why do you scumread Thoth?

Alright, I’ll be back at work after lunch and I’ll get that to you then.

I honestly think everyone other than Thoth/Wryly is a scummy motherfucker. I probably distrust Wylted the least in that group, and then Pie, but by no means are they my town leans.

Wylted is obsessed with Thoth and has been for the whole game. That doesn’t strike me as towny, especially seeing as he is usually way more flip floppy and erratic. This game? Tunnelled on one or two players the whole game.

he actually changed his mind several times last game. So what gives?

The only issue with Thoth confirming himself is that we are likely at LyLo tomorrow, barring any crazy night actions from power roles. So any confirmation tomorrow will be effectively worthless, short of him revealing himself as Innocent Child.