The Legend of Zelda: The Mafia Game (DP2)

Wylted, not Thoth.

On the other hand, you do raise an interesting point. I assume you are telling the truth about what Kohai said, would be a strange thing to lie about considering it’s public information and people could call you out on it.

Makes me wonder if role claiming might not actually be a good idea in the end. Like, now, not at LyLo.

I think Wryly is likely Town. I just realized Thoth basically pushed Wylted all day for his Esptein PfP, then disappeared and basically fucked off afterwards. That doesn’t sound like scum behaviour to me, more like disinterested Town behaviour.

That’s a fair point. And I think he was pursuing it for a hot minute too. I looked at his previous scum games in Ranger’s Apprentice and Suikoden. He was far more analysis heavy in those.

Wylted is obsessed with Thoth and has been for the whole game. That doesn’t strike me as towny, especially seeing as he is usually way more flip floppy and erratic. This game? Tunnelled on one or two players the whole game.

he actually changed his mind several times last game. So what gives?

The easiest way to catch Wylted is by forcing him to claim. He talked about his PM in DP1 and how it was misspelled and stuff. I don’t think scum Wylted does that. He knows he’s horrible at claiming. He could’ve been talking about a fake claim, but it’s not behavior I would expect from scum. I think if he can’t prove himself, then we lynch him. Pretty easy.

On the other hand, you do raise an interesting point. I assume you are telling the truth about what Kohai said, would be a strange thing to lie about considering it’s public information and people could call you out on it.

Makes me wonder if role claiming might not actually be a good idea in the end. Like, now, not at LyLo.

It’s in the signup thread. If that was his main concern by letting people character claim, there’s a couple ways to mitigate it:

1) Make scum important characters as well

2) Give scum fake claims with important characters

But if his concern was that Zelda, Link, Impa would be a townblock, it makes sense to disrupt that and give one as a fake claim to scum.

Scum are probably just going to continue to Roleblock me or kill me. My town games are always like this. Killed immediately or blocked into oblivion

I remember when I had to put you at L-1 to get you to soft claim in Chicago Bears mafia. Why were you hunky-dory about softing in this game?

I remember when I had to put you at L-1 to get you to soft claim in Chicago Bears mafia. Why were you hunky-dory about softing in this game?

There was a difference between that game. I’m not categorically opposed to soft claiming. I think the difference was on the degree of specificity. Like your categories were designed in a way where there maneuverability based on interpretation. M/F is simple

Alright, basic breakdown of the events of this DP and last. I'll focus on the more pertinent moments.

DP1:

I posted a mid-DP1 breakdown of what I saw from everyone, though it's only pertinent if you're looking for behavioral patterns.

Pie got the softclaim effort rolling with the M/F claims, limited pushback beyond REF. Several people thought you were in the game for a hot minute there based off one post apparently.

First claim came from Magoroth: Peatrice - Vanilla. Largely been regarded as townie ever since, with some (myself included) keeping him in POE. Townreads are largely based on the claim itself, since it's pretty likely scum were given decent fake claims and wouldn't claim such a minor character (admittedly WIFOM) and he pushed back on giving justification feeling it would be "angle shooting" and might reveal other Vanillas in response.

Second claim came from Thoth, who as you may or may not be aware got lynched last DP, though Banana used her Governor to reverse it before being killed herself in the night. We've spent a lot of this DP talking about the hammer from Mag1c, so I won't discuss that more here. Pie, REF and I had votes on him, but were absent during the last portion of this DP, so we didn't see the Link claim and came back to confusion.

DP2:

Largely the shitshow you're already aware of with a prolonged stand-off between Pie and Mag1c. That ended back on page 14, so you're probably caught up beyond that. The long and short of what's happened beyond that is that there's been a push for both Thoth (now you) and REF to claim. I'm at least agreed on the latter. I think Pie has a point about the possibility that scum were given a substantial character as a fake claim, which is probably why he's still wary of you. I'm less sure, but I have seen Thoth absent as both scum and town before, so his presence or lack thereof it's NAI to me. The Link claim itself I'm townreading, though that might be a bit too presumptive.

tyvm

So I take it the push for Thoth to full claim was largely due to inactivity, which was no fault of his due to technical issues, and I plan to be active now anyway.

Got caught up on DP1 and re-skimmed DP2, my reads so far:

Magoroth -- Gotta say he's been acting really (gasp) normal this game, in contrast to how I'm used to him playing, and it's raising an eyebrow for me. Vanilla Peatrice could easily be a fake claim. I should take a look at MAGA mafia to see what his scum game looks like, but for now, null.

whiteflame -- Unreadable as ever, null.

Mag1c -- If you're reading this, you shouldn't feel bad for misreading your PM, but maybe a little bad for seppukuing our Cop.

Pie -- The big decision for me here is whether to scumread him for the Mag1c push. I think most people seemed largely willing to overlook Mag1c's mistake until Pie started putting the pressure on. If Pie is scum, very possible he could've smelled an easy pimple to pop and started squeezing. An argument can be made that Pie is just as much a bloodhound as town, so I haven't made up my mind yet.

Rex -- I'm liking Rex for what he's been saying about his PM, but he tunneled Mag1c as well, so again I'm questioning if it was honest suspicion or opportunism.

wylted -- A possibility. I don't share your guys' townread of him, the misspellings he's talked about could easily just be in a fake claim provided by Kohai. Only way Kohai could have adjusted the game to allow character claiming is if he changed the theme split or gave fake claims, so I'm guessing fake claims are likely in the game.

Lunatic -- He spent most of DP1 railing at Thoth over the wylted policy lynch, but this DP I did like his read of the Mag1c/Pie situation.

Caveats are that I doubt a Rex/Pie team bc it's just smarter for one scum to aggro while the other hangs back, and I've never actually seen wylted play scum so I have a harder time contrasting his scum and town plays than the rest of you.

I guess I'm just having difficulty believing that you guys really thought scum!Mag1c would do something that dumb. I mean, he had the opportunity to hammer without even @ing Thoth, he didn't. He had the opportunity to say he didn't even see the Link claim when he hammered -- both his VTL and Thoth's claim were posted at 9:38 -- but he didn't. He could even have said he thought he was putting Thoth at L-1 instead of hammering. He had a lot of safer options he could've used than "I straight up got confused about who I was, oops".

meant to tag you in above

I think Pie has a point about the possibility that scum were given a substantial character as a fake claim, which is probably why he's still wary of you.

This could either be town paranoia or scum!Pie laying the groundwork for a push on major characters. I'm at a 50/50 seesaw right now on all matters Pie.

Since I know Link is town and Zelda was town, that kind of destroys that theory of his for me. Actually, I don't know of any major characters besides Zelda and Link... if there are others, I guess his theory could hold water.

Gotta get busy now and by the time I'm back on I don't feel like I'll get much opportunity at interlocution, mon capitaine. Any extension you might grant would be appreciated.

I guess I'm just having difficulty believing that you guys really thought scum!Mag1c would do something that dumb. I mean, he had the opportunity to hammer without even @ing Thoth, he didn't. He had the opportunity to say he didn't even see the Link claim when he hammered -- both his VTL and Thoth's claim were posted at 9:38 -- but he didn't. He could even have said he thought he was putting Thoth at L-1 instead of hammering. He had a lot of safer options he could've used than "I straight up got confused about who I was, oops".

I was operating off the idea of a Magoroth/Magic scum team, because I found the sudden Luna push strange. This meant that Magic hammered once Thoth claimed, because they panicked about the wagon reverting to Mago after the earlier floated Luna wagon failed to take root. That they were taking a gamble that Thoth would have an iffy claim and they could push a lynch through anyway and look better/more reasonable, but instead he claimed the protagonist, and they panicked a bit and wanted to make sure the lynch went through before the wagon evaporated.

I also thought the way Magic expected to be townread for it to be very scummy. You're right that it's a risky move for scum to pull, but if the expectation is that it's so crazy that you ought to be town read for it it's not. If Magic had come into this DP contrite for fucking up and claimed when subjected to pressure I feel like my scum read would have evaporated pretty quickly. It's the way he doubled down and acted like he had additional town cred for what was, at best, a colossal fuckup, and at worst a brazen hammering of a claimed critical character. It rubbed me the wrong way. I know if I made that kind of mistake I would be fucking embarrassed the next DP, not feel entitled to scream at other players to claim while refusing to claim myself. Hell, I feel a bit embarrassed now after Magic committed suicide. In retrospect I think I was tunneling Mago and scrapped my perspective of the game entirely to reassess who I was scum reading.

As an aside there were some other things I wanted to respond to, but this is the week from hell. I will try and get back to the thread later tonight.

I guess I'm just having difficulty believing that you guys really thought scum!Mag1c would do something that dumb. I mean, he had the opportunity to hammer without even @ing Thoth, he didn't. He had the opportunity to say he didn't even see the Link claim when he hammered -- both his VTL and Thoth's claim were posted at 9:38 -- but he didn't. He could even have said he thought he was putting Thoth at L-1 instead of hammering. He had a lot of safer options he could've used than "I straight up got confused about who I was, oops".

I don’t want to rehash this, but him not hammering earlier is a red herring. As for not seeing the claim, that’s just as bad.

Since I know Link is town and Zelda was town, that kind of destroys that theory of his for me. Actually, I don't know of any major characters besides Zelda and Link... if there are others, I guess his theory could hold water.

Kohai specifically mentioned Impa as well as Zelda and Link. Ofc my theory could just be wrong. I’m honestly at an impasse, and we’re running out of time

VTL REF for full claim

I was operating off the idea of a Magoroth/Magic scum team, because I found the sudden Luna push strange. This meant that Magic hammered once Thoth claimed, because they panicked about the wagon reverting to Mago after the earlier floated Luna wagon failed to take root. That they were taking a gamble that Thoth would have an iffy claim and they could push a lynch through anyway and look better/more reasonable, but instead he claimed the protagonist, and they panicked a bit and wanted to make sure the lynch went through before the wagon evaporated.

I also thought the way Magic expected to be townread for it to be very scummy. You're right that it's a risky move for scum to pull, but if the expectation is that it's so crazy that you ought to be town read for it it's not. If Magic had come into this DP contrite for fucking up and claimed when subjected to pressure I feel like my scum read would have evaporated pretty quickly. It's the way he doubled down and acted like he had additional town cred for what was, at best, a colossal fuckup, and at worst a brazen hammering of a claimed critical character. It rubbed me the wrong way. I know if I made that kind of mistake I would be fucking embarrassed the next DP, not feel entitled to scream at other players to claim while refusing to claim myself. Hell, I feel a bit embarrassed now after Magic committed suicide. In retrospect I think I was tunneling Mago and scrapped my perspective of the game entirely to reassess who I was scum reading.

As an aside there were some other things I wanted to respond to, but this is the week from hell. I will try and get back to the thread later tonight.

Hugs for the hell week.

I get a lot of what you're saying here, you thought he @'d Thoth to be LAMIST and then panicked when Thoth laid down an ace and the crosshairs switched to a scummate. I just don't get why scum!Mag1c would choose the dumbest of a handful of better tactics in that pinch.

Reminds me of that scene in Scary Movie where the girl is confronted by a masked murderer and sees five items on a table -- a gun, two knives, a grenade, and a banana -- and grabs the banana to defend herself with. "It's just crazy enough to work" makes sense when you don't have many other good options, but he did. And yeah no argument here that he could have handled it better, indignation followed by ragequit was costly for town and he could have shed the heat a lot sooner with a claim.

I don’t want to rehash this, but him not hammering earlier is a red herring. As for not seeing the claim, that’s just as bad.

His self-immolation has dominated the conversation this day phase and prevented us from mining any other veins of ore, so I might as well milk some reads from it.

And no, pretending he didn't see the claim because the posts were sent at the same time would not be nearly as bad as pretending he didn't double check his PM before a counter-claim.

2 hours remaining in the day phase. No extensions will be given.

Booooo

Kohai specifically mentioned Impa as well as Zelda and Link. Ofc my theory could just be wrong. I’m honestly at an impasse, and we’re running out of time

Agreed. I have few town leans.

If there’s sufficient interest, I will claim. I am thoroughly surprised by Mharman’s flip.

I'd like a character claim.

No absolutely not