the pitt mafia

In reference to:

"Rex is the better vote for solving the game? Obviously but if Shining is scum we dont want him to coast by forever"

I have had the same feeling about shining in the past. The problem isn't really just inactivity though, you can beg the guy all day to get on and post, and when he does, he will make some weird one liner, criticize a meta we are pursuing, or just generally not really post anything majorly helpful that will solve the game. I hope he doesn't take too much offense to this, but the guy is kind of just here to fill a player slot. I think he is capable of being a decent player, I saw him syngergize well with whiteflame once as scum, but without someone helping him he kind of is just an aloof player. Anyways, we have been punished mis-lynching him MANY times for this type of behavior (seriously, don't believe me ask pie or whiteflame, or anyone from the DART era). At a certain point you just kind of adapt to it or you just help the scum by getting free mislynches. Not that I am never down to lynch shining, but I probably wouldn't do it just for activity related reasons. Other than that I generally agree that inactives are harmful to town, and provided there isn't a better lead, we pursue them. That's why I said I kind of agree with both of you. Alyssa is right, we have time, and we can pursue other avenues with that time. We are actively pinging thoth and shining, if for some reason they don't show up with something good we can consider lynching them, but its far too early to make that call atm.

I could say the same thing to you about Shining.

You would be correct to say so. Hell, if/when Shining flips scum, I'll full claim.

Scum often defend a mislynch target in the latter half of the DP, make some noise about misgivings or 'oh, maybe they're town.' They do it just in the way that you're doing now - a way that feels wooden and fake. You have no reason to town read me. You have more reason to scum read me than most, and it would be in character for you to be omgussing the hell out of me right now. Everything about you feels contrived this DP.

Elaborate?

For starters, he is all over the place with his reads, which seem like a townie who is second guessing themselves and generally trying to solve things. He was kind of like that in Ruyi Zhuan too, was switching between scum reading me, to not scum reading me, to scum reading me again (I couldn't escape his paranoia in the end, but he was seeming like he was trying to be objective despite our heated exchange in dp1). Also his fake claim gambit is something that is in character for him, he fake claimed a framer as town and I almost got him lynched because of it because I just couldn't comprehend how town could do something like that and think it was beneficial. He was at l-1 at a certain point but didn't get lynched, and as the game went on the mood around him kind of shifted til he was town read mostly. Mechs and actions had something to do with that but it was good from an observation standpoint in knowing how to read him in future games. That was my first game with him. I accused him of omgus multiple times since it seemed like he was scum reading anyone who disagreed with him or was against him in any way, sort of like he is doing now. But I think we have all fell victim to that trap. I did all the time when I played this in my early twenties. He's just passionate about the game, but yeah I sometimes don't always understand his thought proccesses. And last game he was scum was the first scum game I played with him and his play was much more "reserved". He wasn't aggressively throwing out nearly as many accusations and he hard buddied wryly his scum partner virtually the whole game. His claim was bad there too, but he didn't try any wierd gambits or anything, and played it more "safe". I am not seeing that here. I am seeing a lot versatility in his reads (whether I agree with them or not) and him FOSing so many people reeks of his town play in Ruyi Zhuan.

Thoughts on #371 and #378, specifically 

Rex is the better vote for solving the game? Obviously but if Shining is scum we dont want him to coast by forever

Mago reeks town. It’s identical to his town play.

Okay that makes sense, thanks. So lynching Shining is a bad idea because hes not gonna do anything.

Well, in that case

VTL RexFavilla

Since I do actually scumread him.

Scum often defend a mislynch target in the latter half of the DP, make some noise about misgivings or 'oh, maybe they're town.' They do it just in the way that you're doing now - a way that feels wooden and fake. You have no reason to town read me. You have more reason to scum read me than most, and it would be in character for you to be omgussing the hell out of me right now. Everything about you feels contrived this DP.

But is this not glaringly similar to his play in Ruyi Zhuan? Maybe you weren't paying as close attention to it and focused more on processing vote counts and working on the mechanics of the game, but as someone who played with him and interacted with him a ton in that game, I feel this is almost the exact same magoroth lol

Pre-emptive WIFOM warning, but do you think Mago is capable of emulating his town play as scum?

I just got out of a game where I was scum and you, Lunatic and Pie were Town. I dont see you as especially scummy because I saw your play last game and this game for me almost felt like an extension of the previous one where all 3 of you were Town. That’s why I said you could be Town.

in spite of what ppl may think, I am not RM, I can change my mind, I dont always scumread ppl who scumread me, it depends, I am crazy but I am not completely insane like he was. Well maybe I am but in a different way

I think if he were scum in this game he would seek to emulate his play in Ruyi Zhuan and intentionally distance himself from his playstyle in the last game. Also, the last game he was scum mates with Wryly, and that was literally her first time as scum. The blind leading the blind. He could have a much more experienced scum partner this game who told him to imitate one of his earlier gambits. The whole thing feels way, way more slimy and fake than the way he played in Ruyi Zhuan.

I want an explanation out of you as to whats slimy and fake. Anyone can legitimately say that of anyone.

Pre-emptive WIFOM warning, but do you think Mago is capable of emulating his town play as scum?

Imo logistically speaking, it’s very hard to duplicate it as scum. Like the reactions and interactions are hard to fake, especially since it’s a convuluted act. Like you’d have to be Hollywood level actor to fake this. And realistically, he’d have had to do a deep read of Ruyi Zhuan. Ik I forget what I did previous game. This game is like 5 games back.

VTL REF

As an aside I am experienced, I just can’t control my emotions/freak out quite easily as scum hence why I usually play so poorly as scum. I can play much better as scum when I’m more confident.

If this site had signatures, I would put this in mine. Lol. First time I’ve seen someone say “it’s hard to emulate your town meta as scum”.

Rex should be at 3/5 rn.

I think it’s easy to do if it’s basic enough. Like mine is easy. Yours is so convuluted and requires interactions from others that imo it’s hard to do. Not impossible ofc, but the effort level required is insane

I'm down to put Rex at L-1 and just wait to farm interaction time out of Shining/Thoth if they show up, and hammer at end of DP.

Fair enough

When you fake-claimed town framer in Ruyi Zhuan you did it to hide the fact that you were vengeful, which could persist through MYLO if you reached top rank and help you to win the game if lynched at MYLO. There was a huge payoff, and a town utility calculation behind what turned out to be a very, very bad claim - because it's a role with exclusive scum utility, and because it's an active role when all high-tier roles in that game were passive. When you faked out WF with the fake result, you were actually correct about his target and he was sweating bullets in the scum chat. That was actually a good move, and you almost caught scum until he called your bluff.

There is literally no town reasoning behind this role fake-out. You claim you are actually vanilla. A bulletproof TP claim would dissuade night kills. Vanilla town, especially a vanilla town like you who is easy to mislynch, should want to draw the NK, not dissuade it. You could have been CCd by an actual doctor or bodyguard, outing a power role. I see zero solid town reasoning behind that fakeout when it was always present in your admittedly eratic Ruyi Zhuan plays.

Pre-emptive WIFOM warning, but do you think Mago is capable of emulating his town play as scum?

I suppose anyone is capable of this. To be fair I am not saying mago is town confirmed by any means, you just asked me to explain my current town read of him, and I am trying to explain it to the best of my ability. If I am wrong though I am happy to give mago props for fooling me.

I’m okay with this. Game just started roughly 10 hours ago tho. Not sure if I trust people not to accidentally hammer.

I’ll unvote

Unvote

Intent to lynch Rex at EoD

I couldnt get CC’d by a Doctor or Bodyguard as Survivor. Besides:

1) Just because the claim isn’t

pro-Town doesn’t mean it comes from scum. Note that you made me 100% scum and not just scummy. That requires a pretty hard level of proof bruh. How did you go from null to scum so fast?

2) Theres a level of inherent WIFOM involved in a Survivor claim. Scum would disbelieve the bulletproof claim (as everyone did) and probably assume I’m some kinda TPR trying to lie and pretend I can’t be killed at night (because they know I’m not scum)

Rex might be going for ‘why does he keep pushing this when called out for it’ even tho ppl are scumreading him because he says “well if I keep doing it ppl will go ‘why would he do that as scum when hes already been called out for it’”, so his reaction this far is at best NAI

I think if he were scum in this game he would seek to emulate his play in Ruyi Zhuan and intentionally distance himself from his playstyle in the last game. 

See but this makes it seem like your read isn't genuine, because you are looking into every scenario to negate the notion that he is town. Yes it is possible, but your admitting that we don't have a past game of behavior to make this kind of assumption from. This is more just saying "yeah but theres a world where he is scum." I am not negating that. But I don't see why we would treat him as guilty until proven innocent as opposed to the other way around.

Also, the last game he was scum mates with Wryly, and that was literally her first time as scum. The blind leading the blind.

Again, no offense to mago here, but I think wryly was the carry in that team. I had 0 reason to behaviorally scum read her. I scum read her entirely based on mechanical reasons, and even then I was second guessing them quite a bit towards the end of that day phase based on her behavior. Mago was just kind of scummy all around, buddied the shit out of wryly, had a horrible claim and justification etc.

He could have a much more experienced scum partner this game who told him to imitate one of his earlier gambits. The whole thing feels way, way more slimy and fake than the way he played in Ruyi Zhuan.

What specifically feels more slimy and fake?

Two of you need to hop on the Rex wagon.

Game just started roughly 10 hours ago tho.

It started 25 hours ago lol

vtl rex

Wtf? Not sure why I thought it started 10 hours ago then