Periodic Table of Elements Mafia - DP1

RexFavilla wrote:

As scum, Magoroth plays like a catatonic child survivor of an incendiary bombing campaign. Not seeing that here.

Grave of the Fireflies must be followed immediately by My Neighbor Totoro

My current townreads are whiteflame, Rex, and obviously Kohai. Mikal and Magoroth have been pinging my gutradar in the negative direction. Everyone else is null.

Thoth wrote:

Oh welp maybe the innocent child can claim whenever they want with this mod

It was day specific in the maga mafia game.

Thoth wrote:

My current townreads are whiteflame, Rex, and obviously Kohai. Mikal and Magoroth have been pinging my gutradar in the negative direction. Everyone else is null.

I have zero idea on how to read Mikal

Thoth wrote:

I don’t think speculating about theme splits will be productive until we see at least one flip, maybe more than one. There are too many plausible ones.

I agree fwiw, theme split analysis without at least one flip rarely, if ever, benefits the town

Casey_Risk wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I don’t think speculating about theme splits will be productive until we see at least one flip, maybe more than one. There are too many plausible ones.

I agree fwiw, theme split analysis without at least one flip rarely, if ever, benefits the town

Perhaos we could claim if we are a metal or a gas

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little

is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.

So... hmmm...

On the one hand, I want to just townread this because it's such a weird pull. I'm not familiar with Oganesson (it was only discovered in 2002 and in general any of the ones listed under the "unknown properties" section of the table is beyond my limited knowledge), but it's an odd part of the Table to grab from, especially if you're looking for a fake claim. There are probably 3 scum in this game so it's possible that one of them would just go for it rather than waiting to ask questions, but this doesn't seem obvious, nor does the whole "I discover my role 4 DPs in" aspect. It's weird that that's so delayed, but in a game with this many players, reaching DP4 is pretty likely.

On the other hand, I don't get this as an SOP claim. It's an unknown role, not an SOP one. Maybe this is just Thoth being extra cautious, or maybe this is him trying to give himself some towncred out the gate in hopes he'll avoid investigations. I don't like the decision, even if I kind of townread the claim itself.

I agree with the first half of this. I think Thoth's claim reads as towny. It sticks out as risky to me, the sort of thing scum would generally be very reluctant to YOLO on DP1. I disagree with the second half; it's very possible that the role is actually negative utility for the town, and if he waited until he actually found out what his role was to reveal it, it would end up looking WAY worse for him. Again, see Atypical Mafia

Kohai wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I don’t think speculating about theme splits will be productive until we see at least one flip, maybe more than one. There are too many plausible ones.

I agree fwiw, theme split analysis without at least one flip rarely, if ever, benefits the town

Perhaos we could claim if we are a metal or a gas

this one’s a bad idea

Kohai wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I don’t think speculating about theme splits will be productive until we see at least one flip, maybe more than one. There are too many plausible ones.

I agree fwiw, theme split analysis without at least one flip rarely, if ever, benefits the town

Perhaos we could claim if we are a metal or a gas

I used to do this sort of thing all the time in games, pushing for soft claims from everyone. I don't really like it anymore. It helps scum figure out what other players are and the constraints it puts on scum claiming aren't generally as useful for the town as one might expect.

RexFavilla wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Rex is doing the same thing he did last game. Please give me at least a blurb to read every now and then, please?

I guess. Do you think Kohai is scummy for not being able to see how town I am? Or do you think he is just bad at reading people?

I was gonna say no bc idt you’re in the category of obvious town. I appreciate you giving blurbs but that’s about it. I don’t really have any strong feelings about you.

ILikePie5 wrote:

Attention:

Kohai is the Innocent Child. He is Town.

I get wanting to take attention off of you for the purposes of focusing the DP, but it was a waste to out this so soon. I think there would’ve been little risk from developing a wagon and using that to get some reads on the people who joined and their reasons for doing so. Not often we get a role that can be instantly town confirmed.

I was gonna say Kohai felt fake bc no one who’s actually a PR waives the “I’m a pr guys!” flag that early

but then Pie conf him

Magoroth wrote:

A bunch of thoughts:

a) Whiteflame did not say he was Town. On one hand, yeah kinda scummy? On the other hand if he was scum he would probably be more careful and say “yes”, maybe even woulda jumped at that word even more attentively than he did here.

b) He could be annoyed at the question because he doesn’t like rolling scum and rolled scum this game I guess?

I don't think him not explicitly saying "I am town" is scummy at all. Scum actually want other people to believe they're town more than town do.

Kohai wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I don’t think speculating about theme splits will be productive until we see at least one flip, maybe more than one. There are too many plausible ones.

I agree fwiw, theme split analysis without at least one flip rarely, if ever, benefits the town

Perhaos we could claim if we are a metal or a gas

I was considering metal vs. non-metal/metalloids, which at least keeps it broader. I’m hesitant to push for soft claims so far, but if we were to do them, that’s the direction I’d take.

Casey_Risk wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little

is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.

So... hmmm...

On the one hand, I want to just townread this because it's such a weird pull. I'm not familiar with Oganesson (it was only discovered in 2002 and in general any of the ones listed under the "unknown properties" section of the table is beyond my limited knowledge), but it's an odd part of the Table to grab from, especially if you're looking for a fake claim. There are probably 3 scum in this game so it's possible that one of them would just go for it rather than waiting to ask questions, but this doesn't seem obvious, nor does the whole "I discover my role 4 DPs in" aspect. It's weird that that's so delayed, but in a game with this many players, reaching DP4 is pretty likely.

On the other hand, I don't get this as an SOP claim. It's an unknown role, not an SOP one. Maybe this is just Thoth being extra cautious, or maybe this is him trying to give himself some towncred out the gate in hopes he'll avoid investigations. I don't like the decision, even if I kind of townread the claim itself.

I agree with the first half of this. I think Thoth's claim reads as towny. It sticks out as risky to me, the sort of thing scum would generally be very reluctant to YOLO on DP1. I disagree with the second half; it's very possible that the role is actually negative utility for the town, and if he waited until he actually found out what his role was to reveal it, it would end up looking WAY worse for him. Again, see Atypical Mafia

Yeah, I acknowledged the issue in my initial thinking later. I thought the role activated at DP4.

Helz wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little

is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.

So... hmmm...

On the one hand, I want to just townread this because it's such a weird pull. I'm not familiar with Oganesson (it was only discovered in 2002 and in general any of the ones listed under the "unknown properties" section of the table is beyond my limited knowledge), but it's an odd part of the Table to grab from, especially if you're looking for a fake claim. There are probably 3 scum in this game so it's possible that one of them would just go for it rather than waiting to ask questions, but this doesn't seem obvious, nor does the whole "I discover my role 4 DPs in" aspect. It's weird that that's so delayed, but in a game with this many players, reaching DP4 is pretty likely.

On the other hand, I don't get this as an SOP claim. It's an unknown role, not an SOP one. Maybe this is just Thoth being extra cautious, or maybe this is him trying to give himself some towncred out the gate in hopes he'll avoid investigations. I don't like the decision, even if I kind of townread the claim itself.

So my challenge this game is that I can't use flavor at all which now seeing more setup details I am unhappy about. On the mechanics side though I think a claim is NAI given the scum team is given questions to verify. Also given that Mafia could ask about specific elements there could be some sort of anti-claim function in the mafia roles. Players may want to be careful about declaring what they are until we know more about what kinda PR madness we are dealing with.

Why do you give yourself these random challenges that don't improve your win odds? Whyyyyyyyy?

Still waiting for the scum team to actually enter the thread

Casey_Risk wrote:

Kohai wrote:

Perhaos we could claim if we are a metal or a gas

I used to do this sort of thing all the time in games, pushing for soft claims from everyone. I don't really like it anymore. It helps scum figure out what other players are and the constraints it puts on scum claiming aren't generally as useful for the town as one might expect.

whiteflame wrote:

I was considering metal vs. non-metal/metalloids, which at least keeps it broader. I’m hesitant to push for soft claims so far, but if we were to do them, that’s the direction I’d take.

With more than a hundred plausible claims, any soft-claim that leaves plenty of pigeons in every pigeonhole won't do much to help scum figure out what people are, but it won't do much to constrain scum either.

Casey_Risk wrote:

It sticks out as risky to me, the sort of thing scum would generally be very reluctant to YOLO on DP1.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am never hesitant to YOLO anything in a Mafia game.

whiteflame wrote:

I get wanting to take attention off of you for the purposes of focusing the DP, but it was a waste to out this so soon. I think there would’ve been little risk from developing a wagon and using that to get some reads on the people who joined and their reasons for doing so. Not often we get a role that can be instantly town confirmed.

I take it that Pie would rollback the day phase if Kohai got hammered after declaring his Innocent Child use but before Pie got on to confirm him.

Thoth wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

Kohai wrote:

Perhaos we could claim if we are a metal or a gas

I used to do this sort of thing all the time in games, pushing for soft claims from everyone. I don't really like it anymore. It helps scum figure out what other players are and the constraints it puts on scum claiming aren't generally as useful for the town as one might expect.

whiteflame wrote:

I was considering metal vs. non-metal/metalloids, which at least keeps it broader. I’m hesitant to push for soft claims so far, but if we were to do them, that’s the direction I’d take.

With more than a hundred plausible claims, any soft-claim that leaves plenty of pigeons in every pigeonhole won't do much to help scum figure out what people are, but it won't do much to constrain scum either.

Yeah, that’s always the balancing act.

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

I get wanting to take attention off of you for the purposes of focusing the DP, but it was a waste to out this so soon. I think there would’ve been little risk from developing a wagon and using that to get some reads on the people who joined and their reasons for doing so. Not often we get a role that can be instantly town confirmed.

I take it that Pie would rollback the day phase if Kohai got hammered after declaring his Innocent Child use but before Pie got on to confirm him.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he would do that, though it would’ve been worth taking some risk regardless. Missed opportunity.

Casey_Risk wrote:

Why do you give yourself these random challenges that don't improve your win odds? Whyyyyyyyy?

Human beings have a need (probably based in biology) for something that we will call the "power process." This is closely related to the need for power (which is widely recognized) but is not quite the same thing. The power process has four elements. The three most clear-cut of these we call goal, effort and attainment of goal. (Everyone needs to have goals whose attainment requires effort, and needs to succeed in attaining at least some of his goals.) The fourth element is more difficult to define and may not be necessary for everyone. We call it autonomy and will discuss it later. Consider the hypothetical case of a man who can have anything he wants just by wishing for it. Such a man has power, but he will develop serious psychological problems. At first he will have a lot of fun, but by and by he will become acutely bored and demoralized. Eventually he may become clinically depressed. History shows that leisured aristocracies tend to become decadent. This is not true of fighting aristocracies that have to struggle to maintain their power. But leisured, secure aristocracies that have no need to exert themselves usually become bored, hedonistic and demoralized, even though they have power. This shows that power is not enough. One must have goals toward which to exercise one's power. Everyone has goals; if nothing else, to obtain the physical necessities of life: food, water and whatever clothing and shelter are made necessary by the climate. But the leisured aristocrat obtains these things without effort. Hence his boredom and demoralization. Nonattainment of important goals results in death if the goals are physical necessities, and in frustration if nonattainment of the goals is compatible with survival. Consistent failure to attain goals throughout life results in defeatism, low self-esteem or depression. Thus, in order to avoid serious psychological problems, a human being needs goals whose attainment requires effort, and he must have a reasonable rate of success in attaining his goals.

I'd like to float that we claim whether our justification is clear or loosey-goosey. If most of us have tight justifications, a mass soft-claim can be considered. If not, that idea goes in the circular file.

whiteflame wrote:

ILikePie5 wrote:

Attention:

Kohai is the Innocent Child. He is Town.

I get wanting to take attention off of you for the purposes of focusing the DP, but it was a waste to out this so soon. I think there would’ve been little risk from developing a wagon and using that to get some reads on the people who joined and their reasons for doing so. Not often we get a role that can be instantly town confirmed.

Fair. Though Shavuot is about to start and I will be awol (I promise I am actually gonna try and not post over the Yom tov)

ILikePie5 wrote:

Attention:

Kohai is the Innocent Child. He is Town.

Since Pie isn't here to call you an idiot for this I'll take up the heavy mantle and do it for you.

Like why not fake claim as a last resort if an actual wagon is building on you, and if you get ccd then whip out the inno child and explain it? Otherwise save it for later.

Kohai wrote:

Fair. Though Shavuot is about to start and I will be awol (I promise I am actually gonna try and not post over the Yom tov)

I only know Jewish holidays because I learned about them for quizbowl.

Finally woke up. Reading.

RexFavilla wrote:

Like why not fake claim as a last resort if an actual wagon is building on you, and if you get ccd then whip out the inno child and explain it? Otherwise save it for later.

I may not be around to save myself