whiteflame wrote:
You're welcome to come in here and gloat about Mikal, but I'm mainly interested in your reads at this point (do you still think it's Shining and Helz?), as well as any info we can glean from your role.
Yeah don't mind if I do. Yall couldn't even lynch him, he had to modkill himself.
Bullish wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
You're welcome to come in here and gloat about Mikal, but I'm mainly interested in your reads at this point (do you still think it's Shining and Helz?), as well as any info we can glean from your role.
Yeah don't mind if I do. Yall couldn't even lynch him, he had to modkill himself.
Spent the vast majority of the last DP saying he was my preferred lynch, so whatever man. I'll fully admit I came to it late.
Mikal was going to be lynched last DP. He just death by Pie'd himself for God knows why. Kinda expecting Helz to get modkilled as well.
@Helz
VTL: Helz
On that subject, fullclaim please.
I mentioned yesterday from my POV, whiteflame and Thoth are town, which leaves only Helz and Shining in the PoE. Whiteflame is soft cleared, because he did not move on NP2, which means he could not have done any redirection, visit the dreamer, or perform the NK. Thoth SOP claimed early, and his reluctance to claim soldier is also town motivated. He is also thematically town, because he has claimed an element from the noble gasses column, and both other noble gasses flipped town.
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The casey wagon DP3 is the single most important point of analysis in my opinion.
Casey_Risk (5/5): Helz (p#188), Thoth (p#192), Shining (p#200), Mikal (p#209), Mag1cman (p#218)
Mikal and Magic have flipped. Thoth was sheeping Helz (poor decision). That leaves Helz and Shining.
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All remaining 4 players other than myself at some point agreed with or pushed Mikal's absurd and anti-town plan to lynch casey. Helz was the strongest of these. Shing also agreed. Thoth flip flopped. Whiteflame is ambiguous because I only recall mikal claiming that whiteflame "agreed" with him their neighbor chat.
All signs point to Helz and Shining scum team.
Shining wrote:
Mikal was going to be lynched last DP. He just death by Pie'd himself for God knows why. Kinda expecting Helz to get modkilled as well.
@Helz
VTL: Helz
On that subject, fullclaim please.
Much as I do have plenty of issues with Helz atm, please remove your vote on the off chance that we're wrong and scum quick hammers this.
Can you summarize what mikal said to you in your neighbor's chat, and what your responses were?
Bullish wrote:
Can you summarize what mikal said to you in your neighbor's chat, and what your responses were?
It's going to take a while to go through it, but I can work on that this evening.
Bullish wrote:
I mentioned yesterday from my POV, whiteflame and Thoth are town, which leaves only Helz and Shining in the PoE. Whiteflame is soft cleared, because he did not move on NP2, which means he could not have done any redirection, visit the dreamer, or perform the NK. Thoth SOP claimed early, and his reluctance to claim soldier is also town motivated. He is also thematically town, because he has claimed an element from the noble gasses column, and both other noble gasses flipped town.
======
The casey wagon DP3 is the single most important point of analysis in my opinion.
Casey_Risk (5/5): Helz (p#188), Thoth (p#192), Shining (p#200), Mikal (p#209), Mag1cman (p#218)
Mikal and Magic have flipped. Thoth was sheeping Helz (poor decision). That leaves Helz and Shining.
======
All remaining 4 players other than myself at some point agreed with or pushed Mikal's absurd and anti-town plan to lynch casey. Helz was the strongest of these. Shing also agreed. Thoth flip flopped. Whiteflame is ambiguous because I only recall mikal claiming that whiteflame "agreed" with him their neighbor chat.
All signs point to Helz and Shining scum team.
Much as I'm looking at them as a plausible scum pair at the moment, I have to ask: does the lack of movement from Shining last NP make you question that scumread at all, especially given that we know they didn't have a Redirector in play at that point? I guess a Ninja could explain it or simply that Shining did nothing and his partner carried out the kill, but I'm surprised not to see anything about that in this post.
Just go off the top of your head. I don't want to read more than 5 sentences. I'm interested in his full plan to "solve" regarding casey, your response to it, and his private reads. I'm not interested in his claim, his professed claim behaviour is consistent with gambit mikal.
whiteflame wrote:
Much as I'm looking at them as a plausible scum pair at the moment, I have to ask: does the lack of movement from Shining last NP make you question that scumread at all, especially given that we know they didn't have a Redirector in play at that point? I guess a Ninja could explain it or simply that Shining did nothing and his partner carried out the kill, but I'm surprised not to see anything about that in this post.
I almost waived my action because I thought I was dead. But then I considered it. I thought if we assumed a shing/helz scum team, it would have been 50/50 if scum used shining or helz to do the NK, and another maybe 25/75 for the other scum to use their remaining active role. So 3/8 chance shining doesn't move even if he is scum. These are not outlandish odds but it did give me pause.
Bullish wrote:
Just go off the top of your head. I don't want to read more than 5 sentences. I'm interested in his full plan to "solve" regarding casey, your response to it, and his private reads. I'm not interested in his claim, his professed claim behaviour is consistent with gambit mikal.
His plan was basically what I communicated here: to lynch Casey, then upon verification of their role, lynch you.
I said I understood the desire to figure out if the Dream was real, but as I said both publicly and in that chat, I disagreed with placing Casey as the priority lynch and figured it was basically between you and Mikal.
In terms of private reads, he didn’t give much insight outside of you, Casey, Thoth and Luna. For Thoth, he said he was scumreading him pretty early after we got into the results of my night action NP1, had some light susses of him elsewhere. He pointed to weird vibes from Luna (this was before he imploded), but didn’t want to push him. He didn’t get into Shining beyond saying it was odd I’d been Redirected to him, pointing out that he was a strange target and that a Vanillaizer likely wouldn’t have hit him.
That’s about it.
Bullish wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
Much as I'm looking at them as a plausible scum pair at the moment, I have to ask: does the lack of movement from Shining last NP make you question that scumread at all, especially given that we know they didn't have a Redirector in play at that point? I guess a Ninja could explain it or simply that Shining did nothing and his partner carried out the kill, but I'm surprised not to see anything about that in this post.
I almost waived my action because I thought I was dead. But then I considered it. I thought if we assumed a shing/helz scum team, it would have been 50/50 if scum used shining or helz to do the NK, and another maybe 25/75 for the other scum to use their remaining active role. So 3/8 chance shining doesn't move even if he is scum. These are not outlandish odds but it did give me pause.
Alright, I get the thinking anyway. Always possible they chose to reduce their night actions or ran out, given that no one got Vanillaized.
Come to think of it, I haven’t really considered why I was Redirected to Shining, specifically, nor why Mikal was so dead set on selling the Bus Driver narrative. The latter maybe because more focus on a Redirector specifically would have implicated him, but it’s still odd.
Shining wrote:
Mikal was going to be lynched last DP. He just death by Pie'd himself for God knows why. Kinda expecting Helz to get modkilled as well.
@Helz
VTL: Helz
On that subject, fullclaim please.
Seriously, remove the vote. At least wait to vote until we’re all on the same page, and I want the insight from Thoth here.
UNVOTE
I'll just point out Helz never claimed anything publicly.
Shining wrote:
I'll just point out Helz never claimed anything publicly.
Yeah, I think we’ve got 3 independent verifications of that. So Helz lied about having full claimed publicly.
Duno what everyone is getting worked up about. Im like 95% sure I claimed Nitrogen when I first revealed. And I have absolutely full claimed my role. Thoth can verify I even told them without being asked that I was a 2 shot which I would have no reason to reveal if I was scum. I bet not a single one of you even bothered to read through my ISO. Not that I blame you. I have zero interest in looking at it myself to see where I voiced that but its really weird I am being painted like I have been any sort of secretive about my claim this game. If anything I claimed my role too early
People should re-read Bullish's comments just today. Not even ISO them. Just read what they are saying today. Its a really weird progression.
From being open minded to being emotional and insulting to Shoving a PoE with some half ass wagonomics shoving the person they know did not visit is scum then directly into questioning the person they say they town read (WF)
When I get home I will dig a bit but I do not remember them having a position that WF and Thoth were town. And if they did and do hold such a view why are they pushing WF? Can anyone see town progression in this incoherent rollercoaster? Makes about as much sense as their weird certainty that Mikal was scum and Casey was town (which just looks like absolute TMI to me)
So I am gona bitch for a second. Why would I make up such an absolutely verifiable lie that I said my flavor? This is why I hate that flavor is even a factor. Use your brains for half a second and recognize that absolutely everyone has claimed theirs so I could claim anything on the periodic table if I wanted to. What possible reason would I have for making that up especially if I was scum? If anything I would be super careful about making such claims and not just volunteer my role and details about my role when I am not even pressured. If you want to look at meta look at my first game here where I just shrugged about flavor and claimed my name for absolutely no reason as town. I do not care about it and do not want it taking up space in my head. I personally dislike that its being dragged into a mafia game at all and I said so before this game even started and I had a role or alignment.
You guys would have to think I either wanted to get myself killed or am just stupid to believe that I would do such a thing.
Shining wrote:
Mikal was going to be lynched last DP. He just death by Pie'd himself for God knows why. Kinda expecting Helz to get modkilled as well.
@Helz
VTL: Helz
On that subject, fullclaim please.
Already did. And the fact nobody showed up to hammer me proves that you are not town. If you were the Mafia coulda just slammed home the win right there.
Also yet another confirmation WF is town that they had to call that out.
Shining made no attempt to bait an NK with his role. But that may be just shining's play.
I wrote a few paragraphs about roles, but I'm not going to post it because it's mostly inconclusive. The only confirmation is that 1) a redirector flipped, 2) there as been at least 1 vanillarization, and 3) scum may or may not have a strongman, but if they did it ran out.
I will add more later tonight (although I admit to not having delivered every time I've said that), but for now I'm just going to say that, if Helz flips scum here, he is the most devious and mind-reading motherfucker to ever mafiate. He is completely off the table from my perspective.
Mikal and Magic have flipped. Thoth was sheeping Helz (poor decision). That leaves Helz and Shining.
From T!Bullish's perspective, "Thoth sheeping Helz" could be a cover for a Thoth/Helz scum team. Writing me out of PoE for being a lemming comes off to me as not bothering to try to mislynch me since he knows Helz won't support it.
Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.
yeah helz is scum
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/iso?userids=69b1ae93328d2bc7aa95c600&postids=6a20427cbbfe74cbd727f612&postids=6a1dbfde931e917602469f6d&postids=6a192e7e04170764e9dddab2&postids=6a13e09b37cbfcb7588592e4&postids=6a0f0e6c1279788e7bb1747e&sort=desc
That's the multi-DP iso. No mention of "nitrogen" or any common misspellings thereof.
This is the claim post: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/63/periodic-table-of-elements-mafia---dp1?commentId=6a1275634a7eac10f4ef3808
No justification either.
Thoth wrote:
I will add more later tonight (although I admit to not having delivered every time I've said that), but for now I'm just going to say that, if Helz flips scum here, he is the most devious and mind-reading motherfucker to ever mafiate. He is completely off the table from my perspective.
Mikal and Magic have flipped. Thoth was sheeping Helz (poor decision). That leaves Helz and Shining.
From T!Bullish's perspective, "Thoth sheeping Helz" could be a cover for a Thoth/Helz scum team. Writing me out of PoE for being a lemming comes off to me as not bothering to try to mislynch me since he knows Helz won't support it.
lol.
You shoulda let Shining keep his bus vote on Helz, now that Thoth has revealed his hand.
Did helz claim nitrogen to you in your neighbor chat?
