Stereotype Mafia DP3

RexFavilla wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

wylted wrote:

Decent chance end game is posted but if not remember we actually do have confirmed scum team of

Whiteflame, Mikal and ultra

Really starting to agree with you on this scum team at this point. I almost don't want to lynch you and go for Mikal or Ultra instead.

Can you explain this read… at all?

Mikal was one of the two players to write 'I win with the town' DP1 and banana ends up dead. I dont see scum killing her unless they realized she was LD after posting something she was likely to check given her status as a ripe moslynch target. The other person who did this is now town confirmed is now town confirmed.

As several people have already pointed out, those two weren't the only ones to post some variation of a wincon, though setting that aside, I don't think this is a very strong read. Banana could have used her LD to read any post someone made, so the idea that she would only consider those with stated wincons doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

His play feels limp and soggy, like he's flopping from one target to another with bad reasoning and then playing dumb. Like the vanilla poe from last DP.

You've seen he's been on Wylted all DP long, right? I get that he jumped around a bit last DP, but he's been clear and discussing his reads on every one of you who have claimed Vanilla in the Mason chat. It was pretty clear why he was sussing Vanillas as well. Hell, I was doing it and still am in this case. I wouldn't call it "bad reasoning" or say that he's playing dumb. This is so vague, man.

He also pushed a mass claim which lines up with scum that are sniffing around for Jews.

I didn't like the push for the massclaim either, but Wylted was practically shouting as often as he could about the existence of a Jew in the game. Mikal's general push stands out, but not Wylted's specific push? What is that?

For you its the fact that you are making arguments that feel forced to a certain conclusion and those conclusions are leaning consistently in one direction - supporting Mikal. But you are my weakest scum read out of the three.

It'd be really nice if you could actually point to posts where you think I'm doing this because I don't get it, man. I support Mikal in his conclusion in this case because this seems absurdly obvious.

Ultra is just such a nonentity this game that I think he's scum coasting like Shining in the last game.

Fine, I have my reasons for sussing Ultra as well.

So... where's your townread on Wylted coming through in all this? *gestures at the rampant flailing Wylted's been doing all DP long* Any thoughts on this at all? I just don't feel like I'm getting your reads at all. Why are you suddenly sheeping Wylted of all people?

whiteflame wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

wylted wrote:

Decent chance end game is posted but if not remember we actually do have confirmed scum team of

Whiteflame, Mikal and ultra

Really starting to agree with you on this scum team at this point. I almost don't want to lynch you and go for Mikal or Ultra instead.

Can you explain this read… at all?

Mikal was one of the two players to write 'I win with the town' DP1 and banana ends up dead. I dont see scum killing her unless they realized she was LD after posting something she was likely to check given her status as a ripe moslynch target. The other person who did this is now town confirmed is now town confirmed.

As several people have already pointed out, those two weren't the only ones to post some variation of a wincon, though setting that aside, I don't think this is a very strong read. Banana could have used her LD to read any post someone made, so the idea that she would only consider those with stated wincons doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

His play feels limp and soggy, like he's flopping from one target to another with bad reasoning and then playing dumb. Like the vanilla poe from last DP.

You've seen he's been on Wylted all DP long, right? I get that he jumped around a bit last DP, but he's been clear and discussing his reads on every one of you who have claimed Vanilla in the Mason chat. It was pretty clear why he was sussing Vanillas as well. Hell, I was doing it and still am in this case. I wouldn't call it "bad reasoning" or say that he's playing dumb. This is so vague, man.

He also pushed a mass claim which lines up with scum that are sniffing around for Jews.

I didn't like the push for the massclaim either, but Wylted was practically shouting as often as he could about the existence of a Jew in the game. Mikal's general push stands out, but not Wylted's specific push? What is that?

For you its the fact that you are making arguments that feel forced to a certain conclusion and those conclusions are leaning consistently in one direction - supporting Mikal. But you are my weakest scum read out of the three.

It'd be really nice if you could actually point to posts where you think I'm doing this because I don't get it, man. I support Mikal in his conclusion in this case because this seems absurdly obvious.

The post above is a great example. I think the reasoning is shockingly weak for you. Banana took the risk of exposing herself to extract those clear, LD-able statements. The idea that she would then forego those affiliation-testing statement for some other random one is bonkers. Especially considering she was deeply suspicious of Mikal because he also claimed his character was described as smelly. He was absolutely the prime target, yet you are looking for reasons to handwave this away.

It also makes your trepidation about Mikals affiliation seem fake, given that you were bamboozled by him in a PM just last game as town. It would be natural for you to be more suspicious of him, and warily looking for any slip ups. Instead, you seem to be looking for any excuse to townwave him while also performatively expressing doubts that never materialize into a push.

Ultra is just such a nonentity this game that I think he's scum coasting like Shining in the last game.

Fine, I have my reasons for sussing Ultra as well.

So... where's your townread on Wylted coming through in all this? *gestures at the rampant flailing Wylted's been doing all DP long* Any thoughts on this at all? I just don't feel like I'm getting your reads at all. Why are you suddenly sheeping Wylted of all people?

Wylted is null to me, and if anything he is sheeping me. I've been banging the Mikal/Ultra drum since yesterday.

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

wylted (2/5): whiteflame (p#27), Mikal (p#51)

Mikal (2/5): RexFavilla (p#292), wylted (p#296)

Not Voting (5): Helz, ILikePie5 (p#96), MeowMix, Ultracrepidarian, Wryly (p#40)

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 2 days, 4 hours.

The post above is a great example. I think the reasoning is shockingly weak for you. Banana took the risk of exposing herself to extract those clear, LD-able statements. The idea that she would then forego those affiliation-testing statement for some other random one is bonkers. Especially considering she was deeply suspicious of Mikal because he also claimed his character was described as smelly. He was absolutely the prime target, yet you are looking for reasons to handwave this away.

There is a difference between being uncertain of someone because of a piece of information and outright sussing them as a result. I am uncertain of Mikal. You are outright sussing him.

You look at this evidence, ignore that other people also gave affiliation confirmable statements in the same DP that didn’t follow that exact format, and then just assume that Mikal is most likely scum because..: his statement is more direct? Am I reading this right?

I really don’t love how your argument is basically just straw-manning my point: that your means of POE here doesn’t make sense (as though the only two people Banana would have plausibly used her role on are either dead or Mikal), and bringing the entirety of Banana’s reads down to calling out Mikal’s claim of being smelly. Yes, that was one thing she mentioned. She also talked about Ultra and his intransigence DP1. She pushed on MeowMix to tell her his wincon and, because Wylted hammered Kohai, only got pushback. You’re telling me that she wouldn’t search for anything indicating alignment in their statements just because it wasn’t exactly what she was asking for?

None of this is a solid indicator to me, it’s just suggestive at best, and it should place a lot more people into POE for you. I don’t get how you’re so certain at all.

It also makes your trepidation about Mikals affiliation seem fake, given that you were bamboozled by him in a PM just last game as town. It would be natural for you to be more suspicious of him, and warily looking for any slip ups. Instead, you seem to be looking for any excuse to townwave him while also performatively expressing doubts that never materialize into a push.

Yeah, I now have a better idea of what to look for. I’m also not the only one in that PM and not the only one with a townread on him after a good deal of conversation. That doesn’t mean I’m “townwaving” him, but no, I’m not going to sit here and pretend I see something I don’t see.

Wylted is null to me, and if anything he is sheeping me. I've been banging the Mikal/Ultra drum since yesterday.

Why? What makes you so willing to just null read him after everything that he’s said this DP, including claiming he’s the TP and backtracking? Are you just planning to ignore the fact that he was clearly trying to draw Helz into claiming his character last DP? Coming into this DP, saying that his exact set of 3 players is correct, and then immediately voting seems like sheeping to me, but hey, you’re the one following the lead of a… null read.

Seriously, putting this out to everyone who isn’t Wylted: explain your read on him. Set aside your other reads and just clarify your stance on him. Does anyone have any reason to townread Wylted beyond him being absurdly blatant in just about everything he’s leaning into this DP? Did I miss something in my ISO last DP that should make me townread him now?

whiteflame wrote:

The post above is a great example. I think the reasoning is shockingly weak for you. Banana took the risk of exposing herself to extract those clear, LD-able statements. The idea that she would then forego those affiliation-testing statement for some other random one is bonkers. Especially considering she was deeply suspicious of Mikal because he also claimed his character was described as smelly. He was absolutely the prime target, yet you are looking for reasons to handwave this away.

There is a difference between being uncertain of someone because of a piece of information and outright sussing them as a result. I am uncertain of Mikal. You are outright sussing him.

You look at this evidence, ignore that other people also gave affiliation confirmable statements in the same DP that didn’t follow that exact format, and then just assume that Mikal is most likely scum because..: his statement is more direct? Am I reading this right?

I really don’t love how your argument is basically just straw-manning my point: that your means of POE here doesn’t make sense (as though the only two people Banana would have plausibly used her role on are either dead or Mikal), and bringing the entirety of Banana’s reads down to calling out Mikal’s claim of being smelly. Yes, that was one thing she mentioned. She also talked about Ultra and his intransigence DP1. She pushed on MeowMix to tell her his wincon and, because Wylted hammered Kohai, only got pushback. You’re telling me that she wouldn’t search for anything indicating alignment in their statements just because it wasn’t exactly what she was asking for?

None of this is a solid indicator to me, it’s just suggestive at best, and it should place a lot more people into POE for you. I don’t get how you’re so certain at all.

Do you have an example of either of those players making a clear LD-able statement? I know Meow didnt, he sarcastically replied with 'I win with fruit'. I dont recall seeing anything from Ultra. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of being curious about this, investigating, and finding these hypothetical posts that could broaden the poe you are approaching the argument like a debater on the other side of the issue, looking for any chink in the armor for the sole purpose of debunking. It reads either like tmi or carrying water for a scummate, and it absolutely pervades your posts this game.

It also makes your trepidation about Mikals affiliation seem fake, given that you were bamboozled by him in a PM just last game as town. It would be natural for you to be more suspicious of him, and warily looking for any slip ups. Instead, you seem to be looking for any excuse to townwave him while also performatively expressing doubts that never materialize into a push.

Yeah, I now have a better idea of what to look for. I’m also not the only one in that PM and not the only one with a townread on him after a good deal of conversation. That doesn’t mean I’m “townwaving” him, but no, I’m not going to sit here and pretend I see something I don’t see.

Wylted is null to me, and if anything he is sheeping me. I've been banging the Mikal/Ultra drum since yesterday.

Why? What makes you so willing to just null read him after everything that he’s said this DP, including claiming he’s the TP and backtracking? Are you just planning to ignore the fact that he was clearly trying to draw Helz into claiming his character last DP? Coming into this DP, saying that his exact set of 3 players is correct, and then immediately voting seems like sheeping to me, but hey, you’re the one following the lead of a… null read.

This also reads like an attempted smear of an opponent rather than a good-faith attempt to scumhunt. It doesn't address the fact that I was gunning for Mikal and Ultra, trying to pressure the former and lynch the latter, for most of last DP. I voted Mikal this DP and used Wylted to build a wagon. Its just dishonest framing to paint Wylted as the one driving the wagon and me following along because I townread him. If Wylted is TP he can still be used to scumhunt.

RexFavilla wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

The post above is a great example. I think the reasoning is shockingly weak for you. Banana took the risk of exposing herself to extract those clear, LD-able statements. The idea that she would then forego those affiliation-testing statement for some other random one is bonkers. Especially considering she was deeply suspicious of Mikal because he also claimed his character was described as smelly. He was absolutely the prime target, yet you are looking for reasons to handwave this away.

There is a difference between being uncertain of someone because of a piece of information and outright sussing them as a result. I am uncertain of Mikal. You are outright sussing him.

You look at this evidence, ignore that other people also gave affiliation confirmable statements in the same DP that didn’t follow that exact format, and then just assume that Mikal is most likely scum because..: his statement is more direct? Am I reading this right?

I really don’t love how your argument is basically just straw-manning my point: that your means of POE here doesn’t make sense (as though the only two people Banana would have plausibly used her role on are either dead or Mikal), and bringing the entirety of Banana’s reads down to calling out Mikal’s claim of being smelly. Yes, that was one thing she mentioned. She also talked about Ultra and his intransigence DP1. She pushed on MeowMix to tell her his wincon and, because Wylted hammered Kohai, only got pushback. You’re telling me that she wouldn’t search for anything indicating alignment in their statements just because it wasn’t exactly what she was asking for?

None of this is a solid indicator to me, it’s just suggestive at best, and it should place a lot more people into POE for you. I don’t get how you’re so certain at all.

Do you have an example of either of those players making a clear LD-able statement? I know Meow didnt, he sarcastically replied with 'I win with fruit'. I dont recall seeing anything from Ultra. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of being curious about this, investigating, and finding these hypothetical posts that could broaden the poe you are approaching the argument like a debater on the other side of the issue, looking for any chink in the armor for the sole purpose of debunking. It reads either like tmi or carrying water for a scummate, and it absolutely pervades your posts this game.

I’m currently not at my computer so I can’t go through everyone’s statements to this effect. I’ll be happy to dig into it when I get home this afternoon.

And I’d love to see some examples of this behavior you’re talking about from previous games where I’ve displayed TMI (for that matter, I’m unclear what I’ve said here reads like TMI) or carrying water for a scum partner. I’m not even arguing against Mikal as a future lynch, just not the lynch this DP. But thank you for noting that my style is “debater,” that’s literally every game I play. Yes, I’m feeling particularly antagonistic on this one. Shocking, I know.

It also makes your trepidation about Mikals affiliation seem fake, given that you were bamboozled by him in a PM just last game as town. It would be natural for you to be more suspicious of him, and warily looking for any slip ups. Instead, you seem to be looking for any excuse to townwave him while also performatively expressing doubts that never materialize into a push.

Yeah, I now have a better idea of what to look for. I’m also not the only one in that PM and not the only one with a townread on him after a good deal of conversation. That doesn’t mean I’m “townwaving” him, but no, I’m not going to sit here and pretend I see something I don’t see.

Wylted is null to me, and if anything he is sheeping me. I've been banging the Mikal/Ultra drum since yesterday.

Why? What makes you so willing to just null read him after everything that he’s said this DP, including claiming he’s the TP and backtracking? Are you just planning to ignore the fact that he was clearly trying to draw Helz into claiming his character last DP? Coming into this DP, saying that his exact set of 3 players is correct, and then immediately voting seems like sheeping to me, but hey, you’re the one following the lead of a… null read.

This also reads like an attempted smear of an opponent rather than a good-faith attempt to scumhunt. It doesn't address the fact that I was gunning for Mikal and Ultra, trying to pressure the former and lynch the latter, for most of last DP. I voted Mikal this DP and used Wylted to build a wagon. Its just dishonest framing to paint Wylted as the one driving the wagon and me following along because I townread him. If Wylted is TP he can still be used to scumhunt.

You keep trying to frame what I’m saying in vague terms. You dropped into the DP, pointed to Wylted’s view on likely scum, agreed, and quickly voted. You didn’t give any reason why you agree with Wylted specifically apart from just arguing that you already sussed two out of the three players on his list. I had to drag any kind of read on Wylted out of you, and I’m still baffled. You said he was null, but now you buy that he’s TP? Why? And why do you trust that he has any reason to work with town if he is the TP? Are you not the slightest bit curious why a claimed TP would have the same exact POE that you do?

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

wylted (2/5): whiteflame (p#27), Mikal (p#51)

Mikal (2/5): RexFavilla (p#292), wylted (p#296)

Not Voting (5): Helz, ILikePie5 (p#96), MeowMix, Ultracrepidarian, Wryly (p#40)

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 2 days, 1 hour.

It’s a simple question that even Wylted hasn’t answer.

Helz who is mod confirmed said that scum knew that there was someone who was Jews out there that was powerful. He can’t be lying about this because he’s mod confirmed town.

Who came into the game asking about Jews 24/7? Wylted did. And he could do it because he’s obsessed with Jews. Also ask yourself why the lynch stalled yesterday between Ultra and Wylted. One way that’s likely is if townies we’re divided and scum were holding off on voting cause they were both scum in the sense that they were either both mafia and mafia and TP.

WF and I both agree that we can deal with the Mikal situation later. There is an argument for Mikal to be town. There is zero argument for Wylted to be town considering he confessed, blamed the mod, and continually tunneled even after being caught.

Hello. I am here for now and sober. Disclaimer: I will become progressively (the only good kind of progressive) drunk throughout the day as I watch the FIFA AMERICA cup.

Somebody bring me up to speed as to why we didn't lynch yesterday and what the heck is happening.

ILikePie5 wrote:

It’s a simple question that even Wylted hasn’t answer.

Helz who is mod confirmed said that scum knew that there was someone who was Jews out there that was powerful. He can’t be lying about this because he’s mod confirmed town.

Who came into the game asking about Jews 24/7? Wylted did. And he could do it because he’s obsessed with Jews. Also ask yourself why the lynch stalled yesterday between Ultra and Wylted. One way that’s likely is if townies we’re divided and scum were holding off on voting cause they were both scum in the sense that they were either both mafia and mafia and TP.

WF and I both agree that we can deal with the Mikal situation later. There is an argument for Mikal to be town. There is zero argument for Wylted to be town considering he confessed, blamed the mod, and continually tunneled even after being caught.

Actually I think Wylted and Mikal are just teamed.

And yes I think that yesterday was a bus. And today as well. Only thing I'm not getting is what Kohai said to make them switch over to him on D1.

wait am I dumb, is 3p confirmed this game? is that what I missed

#264 #266 #267

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)

Worth noting Casey's (wylted) slot is non-existent here basically. It's not until later that you see Wylted vote ultra and then swap to kohai.

But these reasons for their pivot are dogshit and sequential. Which honestly makes Ultra's alignment more important. Since we know we won't get anything from him though I'm gonna YOLO and assume he's LHF.

Kohai is by definition also LHF for wolves there. He even self voted, which is a town death sentence (by necessity). Very few places I've ever been will let you live with a self regardless of your alignment. Don't worry about the psychology, it's how it is.

Oh fucking hell those links are based off the current day? The posts I'm referencing are on D1 sorry.

264 is Mikal's vote 266 and 267 are Rex and his vote, both to Kohai.

Anyway those are my thoughts off the brain. I'm not bringing it to 3 until we are all agreed. Instead, I'm going to go with my first vote that I made this game to keep it interesting.

VTL: RexFavilla

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

wylted (2/5): whiteflame (p#27), Mikal (p#51)

Mikal (2/5): RexFavilla (p#292), wylted (p#296)

RexFavilla (1/5): MeowMix (p#347)

Not Voting (4): Helz, ILikePie5 (p#96), Ultracrepidarian, Wryly (p#40)

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 2 days.

MeowMix wrote:

ILikePie5 wrote:

It’s a simple question that even Wylted hasn’t answer.

Helz who is mod confirmed said that scum knew that there was someone who was Jews out there that was powerful. He can’t be lying about this because he’s mod confirmed town.

Who came into the game asking about Jews 24/7? Wylted did. And he could do it because he’s obsessed with Jews. Also ask yourself why the lynch stalled yesterday between Ultra and Wylted. One way that’s likely is if townies we’re divided and scum were holding off on voting cause they were both scum in the sense that they were either both mafia and mafia and TP.

WF and I both agree that we can deal with the Mikal situation later. There is an argument for Mikal to be town. There is zero argument for Wylted to be town considering he confessed, blamed the mod, and continually tunneled even after being caught.

Actually I think Wylted and Mikal are just teamed.

And that’s fine but in every scenario, Wylted gets lynched first

MeowMix wrote:

wait am I dumb, is 3p confirmed this game? is that what I missed

We don’t know that, but I think it’s likely, which is a problem for us. Wylted who has claimed TP and then backtracked is the source to find that information.

wylted wrote:

And that’s fine but in every scenario, Wylted gets lynched first

I hope you are scum and legitimately tricked me because if this came from town it is legitimately retarded. Somebody who is only 50% scum compared to the three who are 100% scum in Mikal whiteflame and ultra

Flip it around lol

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

wylted (2/5): whiteflame (p#27), Mikal (p#51)

Mikal (2/5): RexFavilla (p#292), wylted (p#296)

RexFavilla (1/5): MeowMix (p#347)

Not Voting (4): Helz, ILikePie5 (p#96), Ultracrepidarian, Wryly (p#40)

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 23 hours.

VTL: wylted

Do you have an example of either of those players making a clear LD-able statement?

So I've had a chance to look. You're right, several people either addressed the post and never gave their wincon (you and Meow) or just never responded (Ultra and me). If we're functioning under the assumption that scum knew Banana was the LD, that stands out in its own way, but I take your point that scum would have had incentive to kill her only at least one member of the team had given a response that was LD-able.

I focused on living players. Apart from Mikal, Helz clarified his wincon, though we know he's town. So did Pie (he said "You win with town" but that was in response to a question about his PM). So did Wryly. So did Wylted. Yet this was your argument:

Mikal was one of the two players to write 'I win with the town' DP1 and banana ends up dead. I dont see scum killing her unless they realized she was LD after posting something she was likely to check given her status as a ripe moslynch target. The other person who did this is now town confirmed is now town confirmed.

So, please explain your argument. Why does this specifically draw attention to Mikal and not to anyone else who responded with specifics about their wincon?

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

wylted (3/5): whiteflame (p#27), Mikal (p#51), ILikePie5 (p#356)

Mikal (2/5): RexFavilla (p#292), wylted (p#296)

RexFavilla (1/5): MeowMix (p#347)

Not Voting (3): Helz, Ultracrepidarian, Wryly (p#40)

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 22 hours.