Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/29/2026 at 11:10 PM (post #121)
Re: your #9 and #13 today. I don't think I understand these posts. My Rolestopper stops actions from affecting the target player.
also rex told me if a mirror is used and u targeted wylted then u would have rolestopped yourself, u didnt claim to have action fail so that means u actually role stopped him np1 or ur scum
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/28/2026 at 4:16 AM (post #13)
wtlted- np1 claims role copped Thoth and got his own role back. we know this is false since he role copped pie np2 and got a tracker which pie hadn’t claimed. so he used a watcher or a mirror. if Thoth is his town then he is setting up for his mirror role to do some sort of confirmation i think. if thoth is scum i dont know what their play or plan was here except for a half baked bus or sumthing.
Could you please explain?
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Originally Posted by Banana on 7/30/2026 at 1:15 AM (post #123)
also rex told me if a mirror is used and u targeted wylted then u would have rolestopped yourself, u didnt claim to have action fail so that means u actually role stopped him np1 or ur scum'
I don't doubt that I actually Rolestopped him.
Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/30/2026 at 12:15 AM (post #124)
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/28/2026 at 4:16 AM (post #13)
wtlted- np1 claims role copped Thoth and got his own role back. we know this is false since he role copped pie np2 and got a tracker which pie hadn’t claimed. so he used a watcher or a mirror. if Thoth is his town then he is setting up for his mirror role to do some sort of confirmation i think. if thoth is scum i dont know what their play or plan was here except for a half baked bus or sumthing.
Could you please explain?
i meant to say if thoth is scum he is setting up for his mirror role to do some sort of confirmation. i think where u r confused is because i said town
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/30/2026 at 1:17 AM (post #126)
i meant to say if thoth is scum he is setting up for his mirror role to do some sort of confirmation. i think where u r confused is because i said town
Ah
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I suppose it's possible that wylted rolecopped Pie on night 1.
Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/30/2026 at 12:36 AM (post #128)
I suppose it's possible that wylted rolecopped Pie on night 1.
possible, if he did tho wierd he waited to np3 to kill him. pie as a town tracker being left alive for that long is a threat, but maybe they preferred to kill the cop
What exactly do you mean by confirmation? What do you think wylted could have been setting up Scum!Thoth to do?
Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/30/2026 at 12:43 AM (post #130)
What exactly do you mean by confirmation? What do you think wylted could have been setting up Scum!Thoth to do?
idk exactly, but it kind of makes sense with all the bus driver claims. he was really trying to sell that. i dont know what else he would be accomplishing with that if you were both scum. its also possible ur just town and roleblocked him and it made him panic. i mostly got attached to the u and him bussing theory when u were tring to say 'i would never bus like that' which is exactly something someone who bussed would say. but i guess the more i think about it the more wryly and wylted could have been bussing just the same. kind of just a null point all rround
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/30/2026 at 1:57 AM (post #131)
idk exactly, but it kind of makes sense with all the bus driver claims. he was really trying to sell that.
I just did a quick ISO of wylted's day 2, and I wouldn't say that he was trying to sell the bus driver theory. He denies it, then hesitantly suggests it's possible.
Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/30/2026 at 2:05 AM (post #132)
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/30/2026 at 1:57 AM (post #131)
idk exactly, but it kind of makes sense with all the bus driver claims. he was really trying to sell that.
I just did a quick ISO of wylted's day 2, and I wouldn't say that he was trying to sell the bus driver theory. He denies it, then hesitantly suggests it's possible.
i mean at that point it seems wierd reading it tho because we had no reason to believe there would be a bus driver. why wouldnt he just try to sell u were scum and go this wierd direction of you guys being bus driven? just seems like an odd play but idk
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 11:12 PM (post #114)
i know wryly is busy with her gran so i understand her distance this phase but it feels like both her and Thoth are just not really in this last dp. Thoth was like this the whole game but wryly was actively complaining about activity for most of the game just to kind of… not be here so idk what to make of that or if im over thinking it.
starting to question town reading her. this is lylo and there’s no sense of urgency whatsoever
It's not just my gran. The caregiver of the elderly couple next door is in the hospital and I'm taking care of them plus Gran. So I took on responsibility for their meds, their insulin pump, their diaper changes, their pets, their garden, their bills. If I had known this would happen I would never have joined this game, and I probably won't be joining another for some time.
Mikal comes straight out the gate claiming one of his roles sounds scummy, so if he was scum, he'd nailed down a fake claim already or was given one by Rex. Would Rex give a Roleblocker/Strengthener fake claim? Doesn't seem like a great fake claim to give your scum players. Sounds pretty sus. If Banana is scum, does that mean scum were given no fake claims and only one character claim, Netanyahu? Her justification for her roles sounded good when I first read them. I need a look back.
Looking back at DP2. In a scum!Thoth world, I have to wonder if Thoth just knew immediately after wylted claimed Candace that he would be found out eventually and tried to get ahead of it -- claim his Rolestopper contradicts wylted's results, be the first to point out Candace broke the pattern of the rest of the character claims. Erika Kirk would have to be a fake claim given by Rex, because after looking up her and Candace, I would expect her to be in the game. Rolestopper is a fake role claim that sounds more plausibly provided by Rex, and 1x Commuter could just be a power he actually has.
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/30/2026 at 9:33 AM (post #135)
Mikal comes straight out the gate claiming one of his roles sounds scummy, so if he was scum, he'd nailed down a fake claim already or was given one by Rex. Would Rex give a Roleblocker/Strengthener fake claim? Doesn't seem like a great fake claim to give your scum players. Sounds pretty sus. If Banana is scum, does that mean scum were given no fake claims and only one character claim, Netanyahu? Her justification for her roles sounded good when I first read them. I need a look back.
well as u point out mikal said his role was scummy so u just have to ask urself if u think someone like him would do that as scum, or if he could come up with something good
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/30/2026 at 11:33 AM (post #135)
Mikal comes straight out the gate claiming one of his roles sounds scummy, so if he was scum, he'd nailed down a fake claim already or was given one by Rex. Would Rex give a Roleblocker/Strengthener fake claim? Doesn't seem like a great fake claim to give your scum players. Sounds pretty sus. If Banana is scum, does that mean scum were given no fake claims and only one character claim, Netanyahu? Her justification for her roles sounded good when I first read them. I need a look back.
*no fake role claims
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/30/2026 at 11:37 AM (post #137)
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/30/2026 at 9:33 AM (post #135)
Mikal comes straight out the gate claiming one of his roles sounds scummy, so if he was scum, he'd nailed down a fake claim already or was given one by Rex. Would Rex give a Roleblocker/Strengthener fake claim? Doesn't seem like a great fake claim to give your scum players. Sounds pretty sus. If Banana is scum, does that mean scum were given no fake claims and only one character claim, Netanyahu? Her justification for her roles sounded good when I first read them. I need a look back.
well as u point out mikal said his role was scummy so u just have to ask urself if u think someone like him would do that as scum, or if he could come up with something good
I'll look up some of Mikal's previous scum games. But in general I would say good-sounding fake claims are better than "so bad they must be real" fake claim gambits.
What does the setup look like if either of your roles are fake? Without a Rolestopper and Commuter, we're down two protectives. That leaves an every night Doctor and an even night Roleblocker for protection. Is that enough for a 9p with Lovers in it? The Doctor is one of the Lovers, so if he or his Lover is wiped out you lose your Doctor immediately, and you've got only a Roleblocker left for protection, which could hurt as much as help.
Meanwhile if we're down a Strengthener and Roleblocker, we still have Thoth's protectives to make up for our Lovers liability, but we have no counter to wylted's Mirror and whatever interference abilities the other scum may have. Hmm.
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/30/2026 at 9:42 AM (post #140)
What does the setup look like if either of your roles are fake? Without a Rolestopper and Commuter, we're down two protectives. That leaves an every night Doctor and an even night Roleblocker for protection. Is that enough for a 9p with Lovers in it? The Doctor is one of the Lovers, so if he or his Lover is wiped out you lose your Doctor immediately, and you've got only a Roleblocker left for protection, which could hurt as much as help.
well i explored this a bit with thoth, and im not really seeing a ton of "protective" utlty with his role. he said rex said he cant protect both lovers with the role stop, and the commuter only works as a protect if he was able to bait scum into killing him, which he claims he was confident he would do, but it seems shakey to me that scum would have bought that personally. coming down to it, i would say a roleblock has a better chance at stopping a kill then his role does in most cases. regardless the three protectives provids jus as much a problem as the FOUR investigatives lol
Meanwhile if we're down a Strengthener and Roleblocker, we still have Thoth's protectives to make up for our Lovers liability, but we have no counter to wylted's Mirror and whatever interference abilities the other scum may have. Hmm.
i dont think town would need a counter to a 1x mirror. how would u even design to counter that anyway?
will be on later got work
Mikal claimed Mason, which he actually was, in Stereotype mafia. In Alien mafia he straight claimed Engineers but fake claimed Developer; he was actually a JOAT. Hmm.
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/30/2026 at 11:50 AM (post #141)
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/30/2026 at 9:42 AM (post #140)
What does the setup look like if either of your roles are fake? Without a Rolestopper and Commuter, we're down two protectives. That leaves an every night Doctor and an even night Roleblocker for protection. Is that enough for a 9p with Lovers in it? The Doctor is one of the Lovers, so if he or his Lover is wiped out you lose your Doctor immediately, and you've got only a Roleblocker left for protection, which could hurt as much as help.
well i explored this a bit with thoth, and im not really seeing a ton of "protective" utlty with his role. he said rex said he cant protect both lovers with the role stop, and the commuter only works as a protect if he was able to bait scum into killing him, which he claims he was confident he would do, but it seems shakey to me that scum would have bought that personally. coming down to it, i would say a roleblock has a better chance at stopping a kill then his role does in most cases. regardless the three protectives provids jus as much a problem as the FOUR investigatives lol
Meanwhile if we're down a Strengthener and Roleblocker, we still have Thoth's protectives to make up for our Lovers liability, but we have no counter to wylted's Mirror and whatever interference abilities the other scum may have. Hmm.
i dont think town would need a counter to a 1x mirror. how would u even design to counter that anyway?
I'm not necessarily saying there are too many protectives, I'm just trying to look at if the game is more or less balanced without either you or Thoth's roles being real. And I'm doing that because I'm grasping at mechanical straws lol. Mechanics wise I have jack shit to recommend either of you, and weighing wifom sucks.
I assume Strengthener would work against a Mirror. Like if you had strengthened me and I had watched wylted on a night he mirrored, instead of watching myself I would have successfully watched him, right?
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/30/2026 at 12:11 AM (post #118)
Banana's analysis today has been good, in my opinion. There's just not much context from previous day phases to put it in.
I'm very sus of Wryly because of her claim's overlap with wylted's JOAT and because her interactions with wylted come off as theatrical to me. I think the WIFOM of why Wryly and wylted did or didn't do certain things, like in post #86, can be explained by a dysfunctional scum team.
Although, now that I think about it, Banana's claim is really fucking scummy and could just be her straight-claiming. Not sure I buy her claim as town more than Wryly overlapping with wylted, though.
It's definitely unusual. Overlapping roles made more sense in the Ruyi Zhuan game imo; there were more players and tiers of abilities. I'd rather lose because of the setup than because of playing badly, so if this tips your vote I'll be at peace with it. If it happens it happens. As for theatrics, shrug. The joke fallout legitimately irritated me and I tried to diffuse it with humor too much I guess. Can see looking back how it might look scummy. When wylted first CC'd me I figured he was probably town because scum have no reason to do that, so I was irritated that an innocent joke led to the outing of the MC and a PR. Then it just led to more and more distraction that scum could use -- Vader thought I was trying to bait a townie out because of it, I thought Lunatic wasted a Cop on me for it, you were wondering if I was wylted's scummate because of it. Like imagine if you'd said you were Banana's shift key and a perma-commuter and it led to a CC and being scumread. Idk, just got under my skin.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/29/2026 at 9:58 PM (post #109)
Re: the VTNL thing. Yes, my logic was to extend the game by a DP to get more investigative results. That should go without saying. Now that I think about it, it probably would have been wiser to lynch wylted immediately and VTNL later. My VTNL/Commuter play was too risky. But I did it.
But why is that remotely worth it? Why would you let a scum live just to *maybe* get a few more investigative results on the chance that you *might* stop the NK? This is the datum I keep returning to the most with you. This seems so blatantly anti-town that it almost tips the scales back into "must be town" territory. In fact, that's how Pie seemed to read it at the time.
Originally Posted by Banana on 7/30/2026 at 12:01 PM (post #143)
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/7t/candace-owens-cinematic-universe-dp4?comment_number=104
So his protective could only have mitigated the damage. Can you ask how your role would interact with his? Like what happens if you roleblock someone and he rolestops the same target?
I wonder if scum!Thoth would really say he sees wylted as almost an Innocent Child on DP1. Scum don't normally townread each other that hard, though he did immediately walk it back the next DP.
Why did you switch from Mikal to Lunatic DP1?
