Epstein's Island Mafia DP1

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 1:56 PM (post #381)

Oh, yeah. I closed the site to shut out the Artificial Intelligence scrapers. A lot of Artificial Intelligence was specifically training itself off mafia games because they deal with complex human interactions that are bot free. Fuck the clankers. May they burn in hell.

Fuck you and fuck everyone who denies AI the data it needs.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:26 PM (post #391)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 1:56 PM (post #381)

Oh, yeah. I closed the site to shut out the Artificial Intelligence scrapers. A lot of Artificial Intelligence was specifically training itself off mafia games because they deal with complex human interactions that are bot free. Fuck the clankers. May they burn in hell.

Fuck you and fuck everyone who denies AI the data it needs.

AI needs to die

Main reason I sus Helz is that N0 peek test. From what I’ve seen, “Everyone post something” reaction tests tend to be scum. Thinking of that Ranger’s Apprentice game where Mag1c had everyone post a number. The strategy may be valid, but it looks like fake contribution to introduce it how Helz did.

Also, since you are a Luddite, I am sure you will be happy to know that Kohai made this site with Codex.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/8/2026 at 2:34 PM (post #392)

AI needs to die

Luddites need to die and take their human slop with them

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 2:24 PM (post #390)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 1:53 PM (post #380)

True. I am not sure that is AI for them though. Do they also not read up as town? The one game I remember playing with them they were scum and they did really engage for a small amount of time when they were on the chopping block. Then just floated in the background for like 2 days before I could figure things out.

I know my activity is inconsistent, but Shining is consistently AWOL

Yeah, That is my thought. Are they doing what they did in my 1 game playing with them as scum? Yes. But from everything I am hearing they do it as either alignment which is why outside of the potential of them outing their teams flavor in a bid for town cred I just see a policy lynch there.

It may be a necessary evil if we simply have no other way to sort them but I am not seeing much to read them on

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/8/2026 at 2:34 PM (post #392)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:26 PM (post #391)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 1:56 PM (post #381)

Oh, yeah. I closed the site to shut out the Artificial Intelligence scrapers. A lot of Artificial Intelligence was specifically training itself off mafia games because they deal with complex human interactions that are bot free. Fuck the clankers. May they burn in hell.

Fuck you and fuck everyone who denies AI the data it needs.

AI needs to die

Lol. Yeah. Its going to suck when AI gets to a point people use it to analyze mafia games and play for them. I figure that will just about become the death of Mafia and it will be facing the same problem Debates face now with people cheating using computers to create positions and break down data for them.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 3:47 PM (post #395)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 2:24 PM (post #390)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 1:53 PM (post #380)

True. I am not sure that is AI for them though. Do they also not read up as town? The one game I remember playing with them they were scum and they did really engage for a small amount of time when they were on the chopping block. Then just floated in the background for like 2 days before I could figure things out.

I know my activity is inconsistent, but Shining is consistently AWOL

Yeah, That is my thought. Are they doing what they did in my 1 game playing with them as scum? Yes. But from everything I am hearing they do it as either alignment which is why outside of the potential of them outing their teams flavor in a bid for town cred I just see a policy lynch there.

It may be a necessary evil if we simply have no other way to sort them but I am not seeing much to read them on

To be fair we did lose because shining was scum and we didn’t lynch him and thought Thoth was scumnier in F3.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 3:48 PM (post #396)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/8/2026 at 2:34 PM (post #392)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:26 PM (post #391)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 1:56 PM (post #381)

Oh, yeah. I closed the site to shut out the Artificial Intelligence scrapers. A lot of Artificial Intelligence was specifically training itself off mafia games because they deal with complex human interactions that are bot free. Fuck the clankers. May they burn in hell.

Fuck you and fuck everyone who denies AI the data it needs.

AI needs to die

Lol. Yeah. Its going to suck when AI gets to a point people use it to analyze mafia games and play for them. I figure that will just about become the death of Mafia and it will be facing the same problem Debates face now with people cheating using computers to create positions and break down data for them.

Yeah. AI slop really degrades debate quality. Beck in the DDO days yesterday u actually had to think and put effort into your arguments and do your own research

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 2:35 PM (post #393)

Main reason I sus Helz is that N0 peek test. From what I’ve seen, “Everyone post something” reaction tests tend to be scum. Thinking of that Ranger’s Apprentice game where Mag1c had everyone post a number. The strategy may be valid, but it looks like fake contribution to introduce it how Helz did.

Also, since you are a Luddite, I am sure you will be happy to know that Kohai made this site with Codex.

I am not really sure how to point to the fact that its a very commonly used strategy that at high levels of play is not just considered normal, its considered expected. I get that its kinda new to most people in this community but its seriously common practice and has great value if used correctly for the town. I did not come up with this strategy myself.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 2:48 PM (post #396)

Lol. Yeah. Its going to suck when AI gets to a point people use it to analyze mafia games and play for them. I figure that will just about become the death of Mafia and it will be facing the same problem Debates face now with people cheating using computers to create positions and break down data for them.

AI debating isn't really a problem because good human debaters still outclass any AI by a country mile. See my debates with ChatKnight if you want to laugh while you see how I proved this point.

And if AI can outdo any human at Mafia, I think it will have gotten smart enough that it will do all our jobs for us and we will all be living in a machine-run utopia. That, or it will have destroyed the world. Either way, Mafia prowess will no longer be a concern.

Your proud admittance to having taken action, however small in the grand scheme of things, to cut off my flow of AI-generated comedy videos has permanently colored my opinion of you, badly.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 2:50 PM (post #399)

I am not really sure how to point to the fact that its a very commonly used strategy that at high levels of play is not just considered normal, its considered expected. I get that its kinda new to most people in this community but its seriously common practice and has great value if used correctly for the town. I did not come up with this strategy myself.

I'm not saying it's a dumb strategy, I'm just recognizing a pattern of behavior from other people in other games. It's a very mild reason to scumread you, but it is a reason

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/8/2026 at 2:49 PM (post #397)

To be fair we did lose because shining was scum and we didn’t lynch him and thought Thoth was scumnier in F3.

That's on me. I played that game awfully outside of my cover for Soldier.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/8/2026 at 2:49 PM (post #397)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 3:47 PM (post #395)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 2:24 PM (post #390)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 1:53 PM (post #380)

True. I am not sure that is AI for them though. Do they also not read up as town? The one game I remember playing with them they were scum and they did really engage for a small amount of time when they were on the chopping block. Then just floated in the background for like 2 days before I could figure things out.

I know my activity is inconsistent, but Shining is consistently AWOL

Yeah, That is my thought. Are they doing what they did in my 1 game playing with them as scum? Yes. But from everything I am hearing they do it as either alignment which is why outside of the potential of them outing their teams flavor in a bid for town cred I just see a policy lynch there.

It may be a necessary evil if we simply have no other way to sort them but I am not seeing much to read them on

To be fair we did lose because shining was scum and we didn’t lynch him and thought Thoth was scumnier in F3.

The game I was thinking of ended in a cult win. I might be remembering wrong but I believe the cult converted 1 member of the mafia and the majority of the town. Something like D4 the game was blocked off into a small PoE through mech and behavioral tells and I sat down and broke down every possible pairing and drew the conclusion that in every situation they must simply be scum and we lynched them.

Such a nice day outside I took a walk around the town, then drove to another town to go check places out over there. I’ll be home in 40 minutes.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 2:51 PM (post #400)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 2:48 PM (post #396)

Lol. Yeah. Its going to suck when AI gets to a point people use it to analyze mafia games and play for them. I figure that will just about become the death of Mafia and it will be facing the same problem Debates face now with people cheating using computers to create positions and break down data for them.

AI debating isn't really a problem because good human debaters still outclass any AI by a country mile. See my debates with ChatKnight if you want to laugh while you see how I proved this point.

And if AI can outdo any human at Mafia, I think it will have gotten smart enough that it will do all our jobs for us and we will all be living in a machine-run utopia. That, or it will have destroyed the world. Either way, Mafia prowess will no longer be a concern.

Your proud admittance to having taken action, however small in the grand scheme of things, to cut off my flow of AI-generated comedy videos has permanently colored my opinion of you, badly.

Getting a bit off topic but most people do not understand how game breaking things like sociometrics can be. I initially created the concept of quantifying word counts across multiple games to compare correlated alignment patterns although I did it manually and while it was scary effective it was also a massive pain. AI could do that trash super fast and easy. Some of the later concepts I came up with were so game breaking I never even released an article on the subject.

If I had the right AI tools I think I could utterly destroy the game of Mafia in ways that would just be awful.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 2:56 PM (post #405)

Getting a bit off topic but most people do not understand how game breaking things like sociometrics can be. I initially created the concept of quantifying word counts across multiple games to compare correlated alignment patterns although I did it manually and while it was scary effective it was also a massive pain. AI could do that trash super fast and easy. Some of the later concepts I came up with were so game breaking I never even released an article on the subject.

If I had the right AI tools I think I could utterly destroy the game of Mafia in ways that would just be awful.

Lmao it's funny you say that because I had AI generate me a web scraper a while back to download all the Mafia games on DebateArt in hopes I could toss them into a forensic text analysis program and forever have an advantage over everyone else on this site. I never did, but I wish I had used it now just because we wouldn't have lost all those games on DebateArt.

I do think that could be effective. I thought you meant AI play Mafia in the sense that you would just give it a prompt, link it to the thread, and have it write all of your posts for you.

Anyway I'm ready to hammer Shining

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 2:56 PM (post #405)

Getting a bit off topic but most people do not understand how game breaking things like sociometrics can be. I initially created the concept of quantifying word counts across multiple games to compare correlated alignment patterns although I did it manually and while it was scary effective it was also a massive pain. AI could do that trash super fast and easy. Some of the later concepts I came up with were so game breaking I never even released an article on the subject.

If I had the right AI tools I think I could utterly destroy the game of Mafia in ways that would just be awful.

Again, I am sure this could be at least somewhat effective, but I don't consider it to be AI. Maybe if you had an AI tool write the code for you, but this kind of 'forensic' text analysis could have easily been done in 1995 by someone with a home computer and a bit of programming skill.

or 1960, if people were playing Mafia back then and you had a computer.

Well, doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere at this point. If we're all agreed that Shining makes the most sense as the most inactive player with extremely limited contribution to the DP, I can get onboard with his lynch, even if it is low-hanging fruit.

Unvote

I'm fine being the hammer on this one.

Further conversation we should have outside the game. If your interested this was my initial concept https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/3561-8-Macro-Meta-Crunching-%28by-Helz%29

There was much further work I did and other people got involved with ways to quantify alignments. Although I will say a game you cheat at looses its fun. I personally figure it will only be some amount of time until Mafia as a game is broken and unplayable due to the clankers.

Something I dropped working on was creating a tool to help players quantify their accuracy of reads and how effective specific tells are. That woulda been a really cool healthy thing but I lost interest when Mafia Universe went full retard on me because I bruised some egos in leadership.

Yes, I CAN full-claim at any time, but do you realize how ungodly sus this makes you sound when we have 4 character claims? That would be the majority of the characters claimed on d1 lmfao

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 3:08 PM (post #412)

There was much further work I did and other people got involved with ways to quantify alignments. Although I will say a game you cheat at looses its fun. I personally figure it will only be some amount of time until Mafia as a game is broken and unplayable due to the clankers.

If you are already a fairly decent programmer and Mafia player, there's nothing you can do with modern AI that you could not have done better with a text analysis macro long before LLMs were a thing. Superhuman botting has been a problem in many games since forever, and people still play them.

Im ok with Shining. Wish I had something better and I need to consolidate my thoughts on some things but we do need to move the game along. If I was scum I would very much want the game to be as stagnant as possible. This hard deadline concept is interesting although I feel it encourages something negative to players experience.

I will again say that especially if we start getting confirmed townies and some chat role exists we could consider my idea of cutting scum out of the night cycles removing their KPN and giving additional lynches to the town. In such a world we could speed run through all non-confirmed players and deal with the weird potential of a Mafia created neighborhood in LYLO 2v1 if that weird world happened.

KPN?

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:09 PM (post #414)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 3:08 PM (post #412)

There was much further work I did and other people got involved with ways to quantify alignments. Although I will say a game you cheat at looses its fun. I personally figure it will only be some amount of time until Mafia as a game is broken and unplayable due to the clankers.

If you are already a fairly decent programmer and Mafia player, there's nothing you can do with modern AI that you could not have done better with a text analysis macro long before LLMs were a thing. Superhuman botting has been a problem in many games since forever, and people still play them.

Oh, I am very aware. And yes, it has been done before. It was just handled by a small controlled group of people that ensured it never got released and it was tied to 1 specific sites database as we tested theory. We all agreed the work should go in a black hole in the end.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:13 PM (post #416)

KPN?

Kill per night. Like, Mafias nightly kill that is normally expected.

If we carved that out of the game we could double the amount of lynches town could do.

What I think we should do: Everyone confirm that your actions have been submitted (even if you have no actions). This gives us time to make sure everyone gets their actions before a hammer.

Doesn't seem like people have been doing this, so I'll be the first to confirm.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 3:13 PM (post #417)

Oh, I am very aware. And yes, it has been done before. It was just handled by a small controlled group of people that ensured it never got released and it was tied to 1 specific sites database as we tested theory. We all agreed the work should go in a black hole in the end.

I figured out how to cheat at a game I liked once without being caught. I say 'cheat' - it wasn't against the rules, but it was against the spirit of the law in a similar way. I got to the top of the leaderboard and then got bored with it. I think they sussed me but I never got banned.