Epstein's Island Mafia DP1

Anyways..

I figure everyone has had enough time to do what they want and the subject of action submission has been constantly brought up over the day cycle. Unless anyone sees a reason to wait I will vote shining. I gotta go bug a tannate about paying me rent and they are being stupid so it may be time consuming.

I wonder how often research has been tossed down the memory hole because the researchers were scared of it.

It couldn't be worse than some research that has been completed.

My actions have been submitted (if I have any)

Tannate?

Yeah. AI slop really degrades debate quality. Beck in the DDO days yesterday u actually had to think and put effort into your arguments and do your own research

It's changed the way people engage with debate for sure. There's little sense that you actually need to dig for information, and a lot of people just take what AI search results say at face value, which is sometimes wrong or at least incomplete. It's a frustrating change of pace to be sure.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 3:14 PM (post #418)

Kill per night. Like, Mafias nightly kill that is normally expected.

If we carved that out of the game we could double the amount of lynches town could do.

I don't see what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:18 PM (post #424)

Tannate?

Tenant. I don't know why I spelled it like that. I rent a commercial property out and they are trying to make one of the business owners legal issues my problem. Problem is its not my fucking problem.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/8/2026 at 3:18 PM (post #425)

Yeah. AI slop really degrades debate quality. Beck in the DDO days yesterday u actually had to think and put effort into your arguments and do your own research

It's changed the way people engage with debate for sure. There's little sense that you actually need to dig for information, and a lot of people just take what AI search results say at face value, which is sometimes wrong or at least incomplete. It's a frustrating change of pace to be sure.

1. If you call AI output AI slop, I am entitled to call human output human slop
2. Most human output is and always has been slop
3. So, if most debates now are AI slop, most debates used to be human slop (Sturgeon's rule)
4. Strong debaters are still much, much better than any AI is or is likely to be in the foreseeable future (Again, have a laugh while reading my steamrolls of ChatKnight)

I can't stand anti-AI arguments. "oh boohoo it devalues art and discourages artists from becoming artists." YES. YES IT DOES. THAT IS WHAT TECHNOLOGY DOES. AUTOMATION IS GOOD. I don't give a fuck that an artist is out of a job if I can save myself hundreds of thousands of dollars on a commission using ChatGPT. You have no place in the economy unless you can outperform AI enough that your service is worth the extra money. You have gone the way of many other jobs before. Suck it up and get over it.

hundreds or * thousands

Unless it's a really big commission I guess

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 4:20 PM (post #428)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/8/2026 at 3:18 PM (post #425)

Yeah. AI slop really degrades debate quality. Beck in the DDO days yesterday u actually had to think and put effort into your arguments and do your own research

It's changed the way people engage with debate for sure. There's little sense that you actually need to dig for information, and a lot of people just take what AI search results say at face value, which is sometimes wrong or at least incomplete. It's a frustrating change of pace to be sure.

1. If you call AI output AI slop, I am entitled to call human output human slop
2. Most human output is and always has been slop
3. So, if most debates now are AI slop, most debates used to be human slop (Sturgeon's rule)
4. Strong debaters are still much, much better than any AI is or is likely to be in the foreseeable future (Again, have a laugh while reading my steamrolls of ChatKnight)

Feels like this isn't responsive to me at all since I didn't refer to it as AI slop, but fine. And I agree with 4 at least.

Yeah, but I think you were generally agreeing with Kohai, so I was in effect responding to both of you.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:19 PM (post #426)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 3:14 PM (post #418)

Kill per night. Like, Mafias nightly kill that is normally expected.

If we carved that out of the game we could double the amount of lynches town could do.

I don't see what you are saying.

So like, If we look at my earlier breakdown of how many day phases we have-

Worst case-

N1- 1 Misslynch 1 killed

D2 5 town 2 mafia

N2- 1 Misslynch 1 killed

D3 Lylo at 3 town 2 Mafia

Then remove the 1 killed part. Without considering redirection and such we assume 1 kill every night and that killed player being a town member.

Removing that makes it worst case-

N1 1 misslynch

D2 6 town 2 mafia

N2 1 misslynch

D3 5 town 2 mafia

N3 1 misslynch

D4 4 town 2 mafia

N4 1 misslynch

D5 Lylo at 3 town 2 mafia

Obviously not possible to be done like this exactly but thats the concept. Town gets more lynches if wolves can be shut out from their night kill. I feel its slightly game breaking although it hinges on the potential of a very specific gamestate with a town role existing that creates chats.

Probably such an obscure potential its not worth much focus but it popped in my head and out of my mouth. Partially resulting from my growing understanding of what an utterly massive advantage this time constraint is for the scum team. I knew it was a thing but I did not truly understand it or consider how it would play out.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 4:26 PM (post #432)

Yeah, but I think you were generally agreeing with Kohai, so I was in effect responding to both of you.

I was making a distinct point, but I won't belabor it. I'd say I don't want to distract from the DP but *waves at the nothing going on*

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:23 PM (post #429)

I can't stand anti-AI arguments. "oh boohoo it devalues art and discourages artists from becoming artists." YES. YES IT DOES. THAT IS WHAT TECHNOLOGY DOES. AUTOMATION IS GOOD. I don't give a fuck that an artist is out of a job if I can save myself hundreds of thousands of dollars on a commission using ChatGPT. You have no place in the economy unless you can outperform AI enough that your service is worth the extra money. You have gone the way of many other jobs before. Suck it up and get over it.

I really do not want to dive further down this AI tangent. But I will say that the difference is that when someone signs up to compete with a human- they are not signing up to compete with a computer.

If you take a computer to a chess match and use it to feed you advice on moves your not a clever fellow using a tool. Your a dick.

Tools have their place but in things that are centered around human interaction like playing social deduction or debate games its just not cool and toxic to the experience that they even exist.

We really should take further conversation on the subject out of this game though. I feel its starting to be distracting and spammy.

Ehh, Unless someone says otherwise I am just gona hammer Shining

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 3:59 PM (post #406)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/8/2026 at 2:56 PM (post #405)

Getting a bit off topic but most people do not understand how game breaking things like sociometrics can be. I initially created the concept of quantifying word counts across multiple games to compare correlated alignment patterns although I did it manually and while it was scary effective it was also a massive pain. AI could do that trash super fast and easy. Some of the later concepts I came up with were so game breaking I never even released an article on the subject.

If I had the right AI tools I think I could utterly destroy the game of Mafia in ways that would just be awful.

Lmao it's funny you say that because I had AI generate me a web scraper a while back to download all the Mafia games on DebateArt in hopes I could toss them into a forensic text analysis program and forever have an advantage over everyone else on this site. I never did, but I wish I had used it now just because we wouldn't have lost all those games on DebateArt.

why was I pinged for this? Something about the archives?

I will go ahead and just pull the trigger. I do not see anything changing in the day cycle and we are pretty much 4 hours over the amount we have been discussing using for D1.

VTL: Shining

(I believe this should be the hammer)

I wanted to catch up but that's fair ig.

Gotcha, thought you were saying that killing a scum would remove their ability to perform 1 night kill

VTL Shining

Just to be sure

You were pinged by that?

Must have been an accident

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 10/8/2026 at 4:04 PM (post #439)

I wanted to catch up but that's fair ig.

Sorry. I figured the chat will just stay open forever given night cycles are instant. Really though the way things were going I just did not see any other outcome today than Shining unless someone came up with a very serious push. And I do not think there is really enough content to create such a push. Every read is soft and nothing in heavy dispute has happened.

Well, I guess we wait and see then. Guess I took too long picking up my dog and getting home to get a vote up in time, but better that we have the extra time.

I disagree that nobody would want to play against a computer

i’m around for a bit. Anything interesting happen while I was gone

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/8/2026 at 4:25 PM (post #446)

I disagree that nobody would want to play against a computer

I didn't mean to say that. I was just pointing out that when people intend to interact with a person and instead are forced to interact with a computer its not what they consented to. And that when that computer gives a heavy advantage in a competition its not cool.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 08/10/2026 at 22:08 (post #413)

Yes, I CAN full-claim at any time, but do you realize how ungodly sus this makes you sound when we have 4 character claims? That would be the majority of the characters claimed on d1 lmfao

what prompted this

Originally Posted by Thoth on 08/10/2026 at 22:13 (post #416)

KPN?

Kill per night, the Mafia night kill basically