Retro Mafia - DP2

Damn, that’s a crazy score.

As the one person with contact with Shining, I’ll say that I’d prefer not to seek a full claim from him. I have some reason to believe his claim from where I’m sitting. I’m keeping the reason for that to myself.

Going to respond to the second half of this first, because I vehemently disagree - scum could not have 'easily' faked being in a Mason chat with anyone other than a partner, because otherwise they would have been contradicted.

Being in a “Mason chat” with their scum partner is what I was referring to.

The only claim regarding Mason chats right now that is even theoretically possibly a lie is RT claiming to have been in a Mason chat with Luna, and that's just because of the sudden hammer. If he had waited slightly longer to hammer, we could have all outed who we invited.

I’m not fond of the choice either.

And besides, I feel like you're totally missing the point I was making here, which is that a Janitor in this game would be weak because of how limited scum would be in using it - using it on anyone who is not exclusively in a Mason chat with you would be a huge risk, because they may have told their Mason buddy about their character and role (like Luna did to you). A Janitor would be so narrowly useful that it just doesn't make much sense to me to include it in a game like this.

I agree that scum has to play more of an information game to make the Janitor work. Doesn’t seem like a great reason to dismiss the existence of a Janitor outright, particularly since scum likely have at least one JOAT. It would be odd to prefer that over other role choices, on that front we agree.

As for you 'hinting' at Luna's role being flipless - yeah, that was just me mixing up my memory of what you said with my own ideas about the game. I did remember you saying that you knew something about his role and that you weren't going to share all the details yet (fair enough). I guess I conflated that in my mind with my own conclusions about Luna more likely being flipless than being Janitored.

Fair enough.

I find myself in the position of having access to a lot of information through my Mason chats, but also having both you and Rex as black boxes of a sort, so I’m trying to decide whether it’s just worth pursuing the lynch on RT or filling in one of those gaps. If that requires waiting a little longer, then I’ll take a step back from it.

Unvote

#158 is very towny. I don't agree with the section about Icon because he had the chance to fight the Icon lynch more, but the other things show good effort... for only one post

My stance on DP1 is that it's always a clusterfuck, you generate activity, shoot in the dark, hope you hit scum but know that you probably won't. Then you reanalyze DP1 in light of the flip(s) and start to scumhunt in earnest. Icon looked like he was going to be the lynch regardless and I didn't see a better option. It was more of a joke to say that he was just acting retarded - acting retarded is still a good way to get yourself killed DP1, and even if he was town he obviously wasn't going to be much use for the rest of the game. Main reason that I didn't vote him is because in the even that he was town scum would probably be on that wagon since it was such an 'understandable' mislynch and I didn't want to deprive one scum player of the opportunity to hop on by doing so myself. The only better option would be to hit scum DP1, which usually isn't on the menu.

Hey all. I am at work. I’ll be catching up during my breaks and will be active after I’m done.

My stance on DP1 is that it's always a clusterfuck, you generate activity, shoot in the dark, hope you hit scum but know that you probably won't. Then you reanalyze DP1 in light of the flip(s) and start to scumhunt in earnest. Icon looked like he was going to be the lynch regardless and I didn't see a better option. It was more of a joke to say that he was just acting retarded - acting retarded is still a good way to get yourself killed DP1, and even if he was town he obviously wasn't going to be much use for the rest of the game. Main reason that I didn't vote him is because in the even that he wastown scum would probably be on that wagon since it was such an 'understandable' mislynch and I didn't want to deprive one scum player of the opportunity to hop on by doing so myself. The only better option would be to hit scum DP1, which usually isn't on the menu.

im going to analyze this post more when I get home but holy crap this is one of the scummiest posts I think I’ve ever read. Let’s break this down.

I didn’t vote for him in case he was town - This reeks of a wolf who was trying not to be on the lynch wagon

DP1 is a clusterfuck - this is literally trying to minimize the day 1 value.

I’m gonna focus my attention on Rex when I get home

Main reason that I didn't vote him is because in the even that he wastown scum would probably be on that wagon since it was such an 'understandable' mislynch

this is TMI IMO

im going to analyze this post more when I get home but holy crap this is one of the scummiest posts I think I’ve ever read. Let’s break this down.

OMGUS

I didn’t vote for him in case he was town - This reeks of a wolf who was trying not to be on the lynch wagon

WIFOM

DP1 is a clusterfuck - this is literally trying to minimize the day 1 value.

What 'value'? This is a bog-standard assessment of the 'value' of DP1. Obvious scumslips are rare, mislynches are common.

I’m gonna focus my attention on Rex when I get home

You're starting to flail a bit. Worried?

VTL Rex

Top score is 110,111

jesus i can’t get past 1700

jesus i can’t get past 1700

3500 was my max. I can see getting that much, but we’re talking hours of play in that game alone.

I’m partially relying on Pie’s perception of Rex since he’s in the Miller chat with him, as well as some pretty solid analysis from Rex as a basis for townreading him behaviorally. I can’t leave aside the possibility that he and Pie are a scum team, but that’s not where I’m leaning currently.

Does anyone aside from RT have a reason for pushing Rex at this point? And if we don’t have one, what aside from the potential that he is the Beloved Princess is holding everyone back from pursuing the RT lynch?

We have about 9 hours left, so we’ve got to start discussing this seriously at this point.

Does anyone aside from RT have a reason for pushing Rex at this point? And if we don’t have one, what aside from the potential that he is the Beloved Princess is holding everyone back from pursuing the RT lynch?

The fact that PIe and I are the only ones on the wagon just makes me scum read him all the more. He's the top lynch target, if he was town lynching him would gain scum another free NP. If he were town, scum would know that he was town. They could push his lynch and then ML me and pie for throwing the game by giving scum and extra NP. So where are the scum on this wagon?

Mason PMs for reference. Was thinking about a way to possibly pass role results to Whiteflame through mason PMS this NP so that he can report them in anonymized fashion. This would give mafia limited info on power roles and their location - information which would reveal them if they acted on it as their position in the chain would give them out. For example, if Earth is the cop and he is suddenly NKd we will FOS Whiteflame, as he is the one who would know. If Casey were the cop and he was NKd then Ragnar would be under suspicion, as Whiteflame would know that cop was among Ragnar, Casey, Pie, and I. Pie and I would have no idea, and Ragnar would know that cop was between me and Casey. If anyone messes with the info in transit it should be easy to find out who they are. If Whiteflame lies in his report the person could call him out on it. This way we could get and analyze results without actually outing any power roles to all players.

I think we should do this after we get back results tonight. First thing after the NP ends, wait for anonymized results from those further down the chain. Once you have them, add them and pass them towards WF. Then WF can post all the results in an anonymized tracker.

So lets assume, absurdly, that everyone is a cop. Here's how it would work:

Ref to Pie: I investigated Ragnar and found him guilty.

Pie to Casey, if Pie investigated Supa, once he receives REF's message:

Cop results:

Ragnar, Guilty

Supa, Innocent

Casey to Ragnar, if Casey investigated Earth, once he(she? not sure) receives Pie's message:

Ragnar, Guilty

Supa, Innocent

Earth, Innocent

Then Ragnar adds his own results and forwards them to Whiteflame. The three other people in PMs can also send their results to Whiteflame. Then, in the beginning of next DP, Whiteflame posts all the results anonymized. So, dropping the 'everyone is a cop assumption', it would look like this:

Cop: Supa innocent.

Tracker: REF visited Ragnar

Watcher: Ragnar was visited by REF

If an investigative role's results would out another power role Whiteflame should redact that info at his discretion. If the person whose result was redacted thinks that fuckery is going on, they should claim and call it out. If any results are incorrect, we can use PoE to figure out who meddled with them.

You should also forward along your NP1 results as well.

In case I die tonight, both whiteflame and Casey know my role and actions for NP1.

I have a very busy day ahead of me, so anything critical should be relayed through one of them (way easier to catch up on discord, than however many pages here).

what's the point of asking people for their timestamps?

Hypothetically, mafia wishing to be more tactical might have delayed their mason activities.

Yeah dude. Totally solvable. Wonder if there's an informed perspective there. It's funny cause she was 3rd on that wagon, now suddenly it was completely solvable and now means I could've been doing whatever conspiracy.

An informed perspective is what I was getting at. I think scum would have had an easier time figuring out that Icon was 3P. Obviously they would have known he was not also scum, so then it's just a matter of whether he was actually 3P or just a TI, and I think that was solvable. Doesn't mean it was obvious. Hindsight is 20/20 after all. Regardless, I wasn't pushing you with that post, I was literally townreading you. I no longer had a scumread on you by the end of DP1, and I said as much to both Pie and Ragnar in our chats.

I will say that Mharman's ISO effort comes off as SUPER towny. Rex's diagram is also a bit towny.

I'm going to be busy at work today up until the deadline, but I'll try to be as active as I can. My choices for the lynch today based on reads and PoE would be RT, Shining, and Rex. I still think there's likely one scum between RT and Rex, so ideally one of them should be the choice today imo.

RT and Rex, so ideally one of them should be the choice today imo.

I'm fine with that. Vote RT. If he's town, then lynch me next DP.

What was everyone's reason for masoning WF?

Quite simply, talking about mafia with him is on average better than actually playing it. Like half our chat content is memes and gifs.

Vote RT. If he's town, then lynch me next DP.

If you’re both town, you’d really want to be lynched, likely costing us the game?

Vote RT. If he's town, then lynch me next DP.

If you’re both town, you’d really want to be lynched, likely costing us the game?

Exactly why I'm scum reading him even more

approximately 8 hours remain

Can I get a vote count please?

Official Vote Count

RationalTheist- 2/5- RF, iLikePie5

Pie - 1/5 - Supa

Shining- 1/5- Mharmam

Rex - 1/5 RT

approx 8 Hours remaining

I'm so sure he's scum that I don't care if someone POEs us together as long as we lynch him today. I just want you to ask yourself: he has been the main lynch target ALL DAY. According to him, he has a role where lynching him gives scum an extra NP. If he is town, scum knows that this is true. If he is town, why is scum not trying HARD to lynch him? Do you think Pie and I are both the scum team? And that we're in a mason PM together? That's the ONLY way this makes sense. So I don't understand why NOBODY will vote him with a few hours left in the DP. Some of y'all are town, supposedly. Please. Make the case why he isn't scum if your vote isn't on him.

Luna said 13 hours at 8:20. That would make DP end at 9:20. You're saying 8 hours now, that would make DP end at midnight. Which is correct?

I’ve stated some hesitancy with going ahead on this, but realistically, this is a lynch that will happen at some point and we can risk the loss. It doesn’t seem like we’ll coalesce around another target before time runs out, and I honestly don’t see a good reason to choose someone else anyway. So at least for now, this is where my vote is going:

VTL RT

He is helping co mod. We just didn’t communicate time perfectly. It’s 11 pm cst

thanks to Luna for assisting. I will be out of pocket this weekend due to a trip so his help is much needed