Deltarune Mafia: Chapter 1 (DP1)

VTL Wylted

Unusually quiet.

In terms of picks, I'm fine with focusing on one of the more inactive players, and my attention right now is on Luna or Wylted, who have had minimal contributions and largely stayed in the background even when they're on.

I can agree with this. I’d rather get Luna or Wylted for inactivity over McD. McD has at least been trying and it’s obviously they’re new.

Luna and wylted are far too quiet

Either of you care to share your thoughts thus far

tag

Yeah, I don't usually love focusing on inactivity as a reason to sus someone, but this game it seems like an issue for you two in particular. And if we're getting one of you, Wylted has struggled with fake claims of late, so I'll go with him:

VTL Wylted

Votes:

Rex (2/6): Ultra, Thoth

Wylted (2/6): RT, Whiteflame

RationalTheist (1/6): Rex

Ultra (1/6): Wylted

Pipis

Catching up now

I presume it's allowed on here to lie about reasons for being inactive, if somewhat bad form.

Yes, you can. I’ve done it countless times in the past

What is FOS?

Finger of suspicion. Basically, keeping an eye on him.

Aside from myself being town, I gotta say asking me to soft-claim male/female makes me think you are scum and trying to trick me into something related to your role. Maybe that's a common form of soft-claiming on here, though. Again, this read might evaporate if I knew your playstyle better, but I'm slightly mafialean on you. I just made up the word "mafialean", so I hope that's the term y'all use.

We usually say scumlean or Lean Scum. As a noob to this site, you’re right to be concerned. This is actually a new meta where we soft claim something obscure to limit fake claim opportunities for scum. Gender is broad enough where it won’t reveal your character, but it still makes fake claiming much harder for scum.

How many scum do we probably have in a game this size? Three? Possibly two if there are neutrals?

In a 10p game, I would expect 8-2 or maybe 7-2-1, though the latter is a little bit more scum sided barring balancing it with town roles.

In one of my first Discord Werewolf games, I purposely asked a ton of noob questions in day chat to make people think I did not have help. I guess it worked because someone said pretty much the same thing you did.

Ya, that’s always a scenario.

My next question is what characters are plausibly Popular, but if RT is town then figuring that out might be something you want to keep to yourself.

We shouldn’t speculate in the open for sure

Good. Yours?

Fishing for claims DP1 is a bizarre meta that this site has developed that I don't like to begin with. Back in the day you only did it if someone made a very egregious possible scum slip and you wanted to pin them down. It's especially wild to pursue it when the mod has explicitly warned against claiming. The point of DP 1 is to generate speculation and conversation that can be analyzed in retrospect.

Why are you town?

The problem is that we don’t want to lynch someone without them revealing their role. Cause even if you are scummy as fuck, if you claim Cop DP1 and are unCCed, you’re probably town.

I'm not entirely averse to seeking either Luna's or McDonald's claims. Don't love pushing a new player to claim first just because he's new, but it is harder for him to fake a claim and stick with it, so I understand the logic. Still good with pursuing someone who just haven't been very active up to now, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now since you did mention you'd be absent.

I’ll back you up on Luna. He hasn’t contributed anything.

VTL Luna

Problem with that is they'll think they're going to be lynched, panic, and unless they're a miller or a beloved princess or a vanilla they'll claim and we'll go 'oh they claimed a good role, need to pick a new target just in case' and then the same thing will happen and we'll end up with either a no-lynch or a bunch of claims out there.

Let’s just push inactives for claims ie Luna.

I agree with RT to just lynch an inactive. Because unless we're going to lynch McDonalds no matter what he claims it's not like asking him for a claim will solve the lynch target problem.

I think they should be given an opportunity to claim first. We still have time

Town Block:

Pie

RT

REF

Ultra

Thoth

Remaining:

WF

Luna

Mikal

McD

Wylted

I'm fine with switching to Luna, just want us to be focused on a single target this DP. We have much of tomorrow to get this done as well, so lets not waste the time. Heading off for the night.

Votes:

Rex (2/6): Ultra, Thoth

Wylted (2/6): RT, Whiteflame

RationalTheist (1/6): Rex

Ultra (1/6): Wylted

Lunatic (1/6): Pie

---

Susie: Hey, why the hell do we need Kris to ACT?

Ralsei: B-because that's um, Kris's unique talent, so...

Susie: You think I'm too stupid to dance by myself!?

(Susie learned S-Action! She can ACT from her MAGIC menu!)

Ralsei: S-Susie, I-I don't think you should...

Susie: Happy feet dumbass!

(Susie made Ralsei learn R-Action even though he didn't want to!)

I was out of mafia for like a month thanks to pie killing me lol. I got into video games again and they are taking up time.

I was going to say I think wylted is the mcdonalds character but I just noticed hes also in the game.

 I have played Mafia under the name Werewolf on Discord and in real life, but not on a forum.

Are you from mafia universe?

Aside from myself being town, I gotta say asking me to soft-claim male/female makes me think you are scum and trying to trick me into something related to your role. Maybe that's a common form of soft-claiming on here, though. 

It is meta with this player group to push for soft claims early to soft lock mafia into a claim that could potentially bite them in the arse later on.

I agree with Thoth that Luna’s been around sporadically but not contributing much,

While it's fair to point out that I am inactive and inactive = bad for town generally, I'd invite you or any of my past scum partners to say out loud now or forever hold you peace. Have I ever implemented the strategy of lurking as scum? Even once? If the answer is no, then you'd have to assume im trying a new strategy here. That's all I can really say on this topic.

It's wifom, but you'd think if I was getting active pings in discord Id have been more likely to remember to check the thread.

Fishing for claims DP1 is a bizarre meta that this site has developed that I don't like to begin with. Back in the day you only did it if someone made a very egregious possible scum slip and you wanted to pin them down. It's especially wild to pursue it when the mod has explicitly warned against claiming. The point of DP 1 is to generate speculation and conversation that can be analyzed in retrospect.

On the one hand, this sounds like what somebody would say if they were afraid of claiming. On the other hand, I'm not eager to claim either and I figure you are telling the truth about the meta having been different once, possibly for good reason.

I can't imagine Casey severely punishing one or two early claims, especially soft claims

Casey must be nicer than the people who make the Werewolf games I play.

Thoth initially pinged hard as noobtown until he said he’s asked noon questions for cred before

By noobtown, do you mean I made some mistake(s) which outed me as a noob? If so, what are they? I'm asking this to learn, not as a rhetorical question. In any case, do you think I would have brought that up if I weren't town? (That one was rhetorical.)

Op implies full claiming likely gives mafia some sort of edge and I can totally see this being a thing with the theme.

Why? I'm not familiar with Deltarune lore.

Don't love pushing a new player to claim first just because he's new, but it is harder for him to fake a claim and stick with it, so I understand the logic.

Oh man. Oh man oh man oh man. Please add me on Discord, I would love to tell you about the first Werewolf game I played on there.

I would really prefer not to lynch a new player for being new

Not to disagree, but I appealed to this defense on that Werewolf game I was just talking about, and I was a wolf.

Also, maybe I'm just not cautious enough, but I don't think anti-claim mechanics generally afford scum big gains for a couple of claims, particularly if one is a partial claim.

I've never seen anti-claim mechanics before. I've never seen pro-claim mechanics either, for what it's worth. Are those a thing on here?

especially given the even number of players.

I had to think about that for a minute. Makes sense.

Are you from mafia universe?

Never heard of it.

This is actually a new meta where we soft claim something obscure to limit fake claim opportunities for scum. Gender is broad enough where it won’t reveal your character, but it still makes fake claiming much harder for scum.

It is meta with this player group to push for soft claims early to soft lock mafia into a claim that could potentially bite them in the arse later on.

If you two are lying about this, I expect others to call it and vote you out. They probably already would have.

I am claiming that my gender is ... male, I guess? I would tentatively say male, but I'm not sure which is and there is well-known cognitive bias towards assuming that things are male by default. It might be more accurate to say unknown or null.

Town Block:

Pie

RT

REF

Ultra

Thoth

By town block, do you mean people you think are probably town? Which will look bad for me if you flip scum.

I might be unjustifiably hyperfocusing here, but the one thing that sticks out in my mind as weird so far is RationalTheist soft-claiming by bolding text in other text: "I am just a very popular person". That's so unambiguous that he could have just said, "I am popular". Why didn't he? Maybe he was just trying to be funny; maybe he was playing with some weird mechanic that's probably scum. We do know he is popular, at least.

Ok does anyone want me to claim or not. Cause I can. But I don't need to if you don't wanna

While it's fair to point out that I am inactive and inactive = bad for town generally, I'd invite you or any of my past scum partners to say out loud now or forever hold you peace. Have I ever implemented the strategy of lurking as scum? Even once? If the answer is no, then you'd have to assume im trying a new strategy here. That's all I can really say on this topic.

It's wifom, but you'd think if I was getting active pings in discord Id have been more likely to remember to check the thread.

Fair point, though it's tough to read inactivity/lurking one way or the other, particularly when the game has been pretty low energy so far. I'm still more willing to put pressure on Wylted than I am on you, mainly because it's more off-brand for him.

I've never seen anti-claim mechanics before. I've never seen pro-claim mechanics either, for what it's worth. Are those a thing on here?

I wouldn't call them the norm, but they have cropped up in some more recent games when we were on DART. Basic idea I've seen (and there could be others) is that scum get access to certain roles if town claims too much or town gets a negative utility/hidden role thrown in to mess them up. I'm not sure if it's one of those or something else, but it's implied by Casey's stipulation in the OP:

1. There may or may not be mechanics in play which punish claiming characters and/or roles, so claim at your own risk!

especially given the even number of players.

I had to think about that for a minute. Makes sense.

Hey, glad you get the numbers game. At some point, we're probably going to end up VTNLing given the numbers unless there's a Vigilante in play or some other mechanism that results in two NKs. The main benefit of VTNLing is that we don't risk losing an extra town member and therefore will hopefully get more results/insights in DP2 to build reads on. I can't say I've gotten the kind of behavioral insights this DP that I'd like beyond some light townreads, hence the push for another claim and considering this avenue.

To clarify I’m not saying lynch him for being new. I’m saying get a claim from the new player and you do that by pressure

I just noticed this is 10 players so a vtnl is feasible. If we want to vtnl, we do that with no additional info and move along

if we want to pressure someone, there should be a lunch. It’s pointless to get a claim then vtnl. It’s ammo for scum so we need to do one or the other

with it being 10 and lack of activity

vtnl

if we want to pressure someone, there should be a lunch. It’s pointless to get a claim then vtnl. It’s ammo for scum so we need to do one or the other

I think there's value in it if we're considering the lynch, but I get this perspective. I wouldn't even say I'm scumreading Wylted, though I would still like to see him post and get some kind of behavioral read on him. I'll keep my vote where it is, but VTNLing might be the best move here.

VTNL I think this is probably the right move. Especially with an even number of players and uncertainty. Day phase 1 is always the hardest for me b

Votes:

Rex (2/6): Ultra, Thoth

No Lynch (2/6): Mikal, RT

Wylted (1/6): Whiteflame

RationalTheist (1/6): Rex

Ultra (1/6): Wylted

Lunatic (1/6): Pie

---

When the demon heart sleepy duck is crying

And the blood mom is gushing bright kiss goodnight

Raise up your bat for the burning fight baseball delight

-- Raise Up Your Bat (Ralsei's Version)

Also I said supa cus I thought rt wss supa. Saw a anime profile picture and similar mannerisms.

but yeah I’m a fan of vtnl

fully disagree with pushing for anything else. We need to press activity in the following Dayphase. Myself included. We will get nothing out of a claim at this point as the Dayphase is ending soon and won’t have enough time to do anything with it. It will only give scum info

let’s move this along. And pressure tomorrow once we see if there are results.

I do agree with Rex. I think there is likely scum on the bandwagons for pressure. Mod indicated mechanics could negatively impact town for full claiming so (yes) there needs to be a way to move the game along so doing is that is NAI but assuming the op is referring to full claiming can have negative draw backs, they absolutely would take advantage of that

Also reading back on this, I do not like RT. Popular or not. The way he said he refused to claim anything past his role without even acknowledging why he had that logic reads as TMI