Deltarune Mafia: Chapter 2

It depends on how casey divvies dreamer results too. Technically both scum can be on a dreamer result, but I feel like most mods dont really do that for mod psyche reasons. Like if we were to systematically start lynching through your results, and hit both scum, mafia would be pretty pissed. So I feel like the mod would leave one outside, so if your results are to be believed, then its one of the three on your results, plus ultra. Obviously a lot of that is mod psyche with early game POE, but that's where I am at.

Fair take. I don't think we should assume both scum are among that trio, chalk that up to both the odds being low and Casey likely not wanting to put scum in that situation, which is entirely understandable. I'm heading to bed, but I'll put some thoughts into reads tomorrow and hopefully by then we'll have heard from Thoth (and more from Mikal) as well.

It depends on how casey divvies dreamer results too. Technically both scum can be on a dreamer result, but I feel like most mods dont really do that for mod psyche reasons. Like if we were to systematically start lynching through your results, and hit both scum, mafia would be pretty pissed. So I feel like the mod would leave one outside, so if your results are to be believed, then its one of the three on your results, plus ultra. Obviously a lot of that is mod psyche with early game POE, but that's where I am at.

I'd agree with this.

The first oddity that jumps out at me is that the main antagonist of Deltarune wins with the town. I wonder if Town are in-game enemies and Mafia are the player characters. My character did not seem that good to me either, despite winning with town (I know that's what a mafioso would say). I don't know much about the lore of Deltarune. Is the player character canonically evil? Are there multiple routes like in Undertale, and, if so, are we playing with something like Genocide?

Earlier today, I had mentally constructed a case against Whiteflame that I was going to share with you all as soon as I got on, but then I realized the problem with it. Whiteflame started the day 1 VTNL non-wagon. As Whiteflame and ILikePie, the latter being confirmed town, both pointed out, there are probably 2 scum out of 10 starting players. That means mafia needs 6 town or neutral to die to reach parity if no mafia die. Under the moderately generous assumption that exactly one townie is the only death on each day and night after that, with an even number of deaths needed to reach parity, mislynching puts town a day/night cycle closer to losing, but, with an odd number of deaths needed, town's cycles-to-lose is unchanged. "Aha!", I thought. "Mikal speculated that mafia has a conversion role. This role exists, Whiteflame knows about it, and he tricked us into VTNLing because, once someone converts, we will effectively have been at an odd number of townies needed to reach parity."

Then I realized that conversion also reduces the number of townies by one, so even distances to parity remain even and odd distances remain odd. Ah well. I might as well tell you all that for the sake of sharing my thought process and kickstarting discussion.

Tangentially, I asked my Werewolf playgroup on Discord what they thought of the meta here of claiming your character's gender on day 1. They not only disliked it from a gameplay perspective, but also were offended at the prospect of assigning gender to characters who have not self-identified.

VTL Thoth

Tangentially, I asked my Werewolf playgroup on Discord what they thought of the meta here of claiming your character's gender on day 1. They not only disliked it from a gameplay perspective, but also were offended at the prospect of assigning gender to characters who have not self-identified.

this is cheating. Policy lynch.

Ah actually this is a point given that one character is non binary (and to my knowledge, only one character), and all the enemies are like.... Not genderless per se but no obvious signs of gender (I'm thinking of like the block enemies or the Original Starwalker whose literally just a fucking star). I think most of them use gendered pronouns so they do seem to identify as one gender in particular.

Kris (the player controlled character) is complicated. We (the player) technically don't even play Kris. We control the human soul (the red heart) and make decisions for Kris. Kris rebels against us and seems to be up to no good but we don't know that and in some cases Kris fights us when we start harming Kris' friends. At some point Kris rips out the soul to regain control. There is a kinda equivalent of a genocide route in the game.

It could just be a protective role blocked the Mafia's second kill. If there were two mafia and 2 mafia only I don't know if Caroler would be used because this effectively halves the number of mafia (if we guess right out of the 3).

I have a feeling that this might be lightner vs. darkners or villains are town and heroes are mafia. If it is only two I think I know which characters they are but it's just a hunch.

Votes:

Thoth (1/5): RT

THEY'LL HEAR THE RING OF HEAVEN'S CALL.

THEY'LL SEE THE TAIL OF HELL TAKE CRAWL.

Eh wth actually, if there are characters that are mafia I think it's gonna be either Kris (or the "soul") and Noelle (because of the quasi genocide route), Susie and Kris (both lighteners) or Kris and Ralsei (both are hiding stuff from us). It could be that the "soul" (the player) and Kris are 2 separate characters. Or not.

However, if this is not a lightener vs darkener or villains are town heroes are mafia game, I don't know.

One more thing: I don't think it's the knight. We technically don't see them appear in the first 2 chapters (though they are mentioned). And I think Casey is too nice to be that pedantic.

Eh wth actually, if there are characters that are mafia I think it's gonna be either Kris (or the "soul") and Noelle (because of the quasi genocide route), Susie and Kris (both lighteners) or Kris and Ralsei (both are hiding stuff from us). It could be that the "soul" (the player) and Kris are 2 separate characters. Or not.

On the topic of which characters are in the game, I'm going to say that mine seems minor enough to me that I think it probably would not be on anyone's shortlist for potential inclusions.

I have some info on wf and I was not sus on McDonald’s

Explain more

I will after he role claims

I also totally missed the mark with the theme. Not sure what the theme is tbh. Once we see a flip, we probably can solve it.

VTL Whiteflame

If enough people want my claim, I'll give it, but I'd like to understand your perspective better here. You clearly got some info that you believe implicates me. Fine. We've got a list of three players, yourself included, that RT received and that we know contains one scum player. In a game where we know anti-claim mechanics are likely in play and therefore getting a lot of claims all at once is bound to empower scum, when we have alignment info on a subset of other players, why should anyone else prioritize my claim over yours, Thoth's and Shining's?

I'm not trusting those three names. What if scum simply have an ability where they can simply send town players a message at night? They could have sent three names knowing that's how it would be interpreted - that's three mislynches by the time we get wise to it, pretty much game over.

I’ve never heard of a scum role that delivers three names to a town player via the mod (the closest I can think of is a Messenger, which would just deliver a message), but fine, let’s assume shenanigans for a moment. Explain to me why you’re so inherently trusting of Mikal here.

1) I don’t trust a dreamer outright. It’s something to consider

2) I didn’t say it implicates you. I said I had something on you and want your role and not your character.

I’ll bite.

VTL Whiteflame

1) I don’t trust a dreamer outright. It’s something to consider

Fine. From an external perspective, I'm not seeing a reason to consider what you've found more strongly than the results RT received.

2) I didn’t say it implicates you. I said I had something on you and want your role and not your character.

If it doesn't implicate me (I'm not sure what the difference is between implicating and having something on me, but I'll take your word that there's a difference), then why is my role your priority? If there wasn't an anti-claim mechanic to concern ourselves with, I might understand this better, but a) we don't know how that mechanic works so even just role claims could be a problem, and b) we should still be pretty conservative with how many claims we get.

If you've got info, spill it and I'll claim too.

What is your result ?

What is your result ?

I don't have a result. When did I imply a result?

Votes:

Whiteflame (2/5): RexFavilla, RT

So I haveth here a laser pointere

It depends if the dreams actually real, but I can see Noelle being scum and the theme is Lightners vs Darkeners. Do wonder who RT is though.

I’ll bite.

VTL Whiteflame

I am sincerely at a loss regarding this vote. You should be more confident than anyone here that you have the name of at least one scum on that list of three. Why is my claim your priority?

He could just be pressuring you.

Maybe, but considering that claims come at a premium this game, that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, particularly since he already has three claims he wants.

Do wonder why he isn't pressuring us a bit harder.

Don't get that, either.