Deltarune Mafia: Chapter 2

Because it there's no scum in the POE, following it will cost us the game.

Thank you!

So... you're arguing that the lack of a lynch flip denied town valuable information that outweighs the gain of an extra DP? I mean, if that's your view, you're welcome to it, but I don't agree.

No. I am saying that I think you VTNLed to avoid suspicion in case you voted out a townie, which you most likely would, while manipulating the numbers where you could still win with three more mislynches, and denying town information from the flip or saving a town-harmful neutral would be potential bonuses.

I think losing another player would have been more damaging, especially since we were far more likely to lynch town given that no one was on the same page about a lynch wagon.

Agreed, but see above.

I also just don't get how you come up with scenarios like this, that we somehow "crunched the numbers" and determined that there was value in denying ourselves information to simultaneously deny town a flip that would have put them one step closer to MYLO. It's another instance of WIFOM, but it would be some baffling math on our parts to conclude that that's the best possible outcome from DP1.

The math is noticing that you could VTNL and still win with as many mislynches as a Caroler claim could give you. I would not call that baffling. Yes, a mislynch would have put town one step closer to MYLO, but you can lose a battle and still win the war.

Erratum: That 10 choose 3 = 120 should have been 9 choose 3 = 84 since ILikePie died last night. Assuming that RT and whiteflame are both scum, then 7 choose 3 = 35, but that is pointless since it is assuming the conclusion which I am using probability to suggest. My point stands.

Re: post 233. Agreed that is critical info. I missed that earlier.

It's possible that Mikal is neutral or a townie lying for some reason he thinks will benefit town, in which case whiteflame and/or RT could still be scum.

Bulletproof isnt the easiest claim for me to buy.

Hm. Either Thoth or Mikal wouldn't be a stupid bet at this point, but with the bulletproof claim and the hesitance to give it I'm keeping my vote on thoth

Bulletproof isnt the easiest claim for me to buy.

Because it is would scum would claim to explain why they have not been night-killed?

what* scum would claim

Because it is would scum would claim to explain why they have not been night-killed?

Its a common fake claim and it limits the number of protection roles town could reasonably have. But I am considering it, because like I said, I still am leaning towards scum being mikal and I dont think both scum are on those results.

Well Thoth is the lynch now. The last anti-claim mechanic that Casey included allowed scum to nullify any protection if they knew your character and role. This means that if you are in POE and full claim, there's a good chance you cannot be protected. So don't fucking full claim, because it means that you're removing town's ability to protect you from the NK once we do lynch scum in the POE, at which point mafia will almost certainly start targeting whichever town players survived for NKs as they will be town confirmed. This presents town's best chance to either prevent a NK or to scare scum off from killing a town-confirmed player. Whatever utility your role has, possibly depriving town of the ability to cancel out a NK at that phase of the game by protecting you is not worth it. Unless you are the cop, if you full claim you are in my eyes making yourself worthless as a town-confirmed player. You are not reducing my chance of lynching you at all, you are increasing it.

Lunatic is now also one of my top scumreads for pushing for another full claim with POE, and RT just wiped out whatever townread I had on him. There's quite literally zero reason to do this, it's incredibly anti-town. If a town player think's that their role is so critical that lynching them will cripple town, they can make the judgement call on whether to claim or not. If we in the process of deliberation we get full claims from all the characters within POE it will likely give them some vulnerability to scum and we are, by definition, not going to lynch all of them so it means that we will be giving whatever town-confirmed players which survive vulnerability.

If you full claim at any point and you aren't the cop or the doc I will try my damndest to lynch you. Please don't cave to pressure, scum will be seeking full claims especially within POE.

Lunatic is now also one of my top scumreads for pushing for another full claim with POE

What are you talking about? I've been pushing mikal. Thoth is at l-1 and honestly still is likely getting lynched. Thats what you do at l-1. You claim. He is probably getting lynched either way and I am not really sold he's scum. But again I didn't push this lynch, just encouraged that he should claim since he's at l-1.

If a town player think's that their role is so critical that lynching them will cripple town, they can make the judgement call on whether to claim or not. If we in the process of deliberation we get full claims from all the characters within POE it will likely give them some vulnerability to scum and we are, by definition, not going to lynch all of them so it means that we will be giving whatever town-confirmed players which survive vulnerability.

This take is absolutely fvcking retarded btw lol. If your at l-1 you claim. If you are town and think you can pull off an effective lie, do it, but if it backfires you are basically throwing. But I will argue this with you all day, it is ALWAYS better to comply then to get mislynched for being obstinate. The second you set the standard that mafia can avoid claiming by throwing a fit and stamping their foot, the second the game gets ruined. People like royal paladin would play that card ALL the time back on DDO, and it became so un fun to play with her and people like her. I encourage intelligent lying, austin does it, I do it, just know that if you are a power role you take a calculated risk doing so. If you don't think you can lie effectively, sometimes its worth outing a power role as opposed to mislynching the person. Town don't get many mislynches, the more we can avoid doing it the better. Too many variables that can effect power roles anyways, like mafia actions or town mis-use. We shouldn't have to rely on investigative results to carry us anyways. So I'd 100% rather someone claim cop for example and avoid getting mislynched than take it to their grave and die anyway.

I don’t love a lot of your responses, but it’s also not reason enough to execute this lynch and I’ll need to reread your responses and address them. I’d rather not have you at L-1 until I get there (I’ve got a busy enough morning as it is), so:

Unvote

I’ll say for now that I’m still very much torn between Mikal and Thoth here. The lack of other claimed protective roles gives Thoth some cover for that claim, but a triggerable self-protective role (why is this becoming a thing? Why aren’t people just BP?) rubs me the wrong way, so it feels off. The character seems like a bit of an outlier too, at least compared with the flip we have and my character. Going to have to chew on that.

VTl Thoth

don’t like the claim or the character thematically. Also the crown and bp thing makes very little sense.

Should be l-1

if there is a mafia popular again and wf fake claimed caroler to line up with it. It’s a very good play. It’s possible but doubt it.

I’ve listed out the three scenarios above in another post and I think we need to start with the Poe in the results. It’s just to much to buy that wf is scum and ending the game on a caroler fk. I see why he has to push it though because if he’s claiming to lynch off the read list, he will eventually die. So he’s trying to invalidate it.

The claim seems too complex for a noob to make up personally part of the reason I’m actually buying it

Not a noob I know but he’s new to our site and meta and I’m not sure how common bullet proof is in other mafia sites. it’s very common from DART though and the character complexity means it’s either a fake claim or he had deep knowledge of the theme in conjunction to being lucky to be right about Bps being popular on dart if that makes sense. Also it’s not a fake claim mafia would feel safe claiming so I think it’s more likely real

It’s not complex at all. I also don’t think hes new new. His mannerisms and terminology are better than a brand new player and he likely could have had help. The character also just does not make sense as bullet proof at all. The justification is awful. I have such an in-depth justification for my role and character that I do not buy that in the slightest

I could be missing the mark here but it almost feels like such blaring mislynch the more I look at it. If I’m wrong I’ll be happy to have Mis diagnosed this one. I also realize we don’t have the most time. If it’s possible to flip a Mikal lynch here I’d prefer it but I understand if that’s not possible at this point

its also 1x bp lol

pls stop being dumb and let’s move this forward.

I think c round is jail keeper.

Or rb or something. Watched the video on lore before this game and reading through this character again. Bp makes no sense.

Unvote

what is the full justification for this. I want to entertain this

C. Round is a Darkner from the Card Kingdom. C. Round is a harmless enemy encountered after Susiejoins the party, but Susie insists on using violence against it.

It becomes crowned at the end of Great Board, transforming into the recurring mini-boss K. Round.

Profile

Appearance

C. Round resembles a red uncrowned checker piece with brown legs protruding from its edge and a smiling dog-like face on one of its flat sides.

When turning into K. Round, it appears as a bigger checker piece with a crown and tall muscular legs.

Personality

Despite always appearing to smile, C. Round is described as doing things it does not seem to be aware of. C. Round does seem to be unaware of its surroundings and does not speak a known language, nor understand one.

Main Story

Chapter 1

C. Round first appears in the Field after Susie joins the party. Ralsei suggests that Kris includes Susie in an ACT in the upcoming encounter, and Kris remembers this advice as the encounter starts. However, C. Round does not understand the warning about Susie's attacks and gets hit, causing it to run away.

Later, on the Great Board, C. Round is introduced by Lancer as "something terrible" that even he is afraid of. The C. Round steps on the last row of the Board and transforms into K. Round for the battle. After the party makes K. Round's crown fall off, it transforms back into a C. Round and rolls away.

On Floor 5F of Card Castle, Rouxls Kaard summons K. Round as his third attempt to thwart the party. He does not seem to know what it is, but claims to have created it by placing a "Control Crown" on a C. Round, enabling him to control any disc-shaped life form.

After being defeated, C. Round remains in the same room, its viciousness having changed to benevolence. If the party defeats King without harming anybody, they can find C. Round by backtracking to the Throne Room, where it blocks the southward exit and prevents further backtracking.

Chapter 2

C. Round can be found in the Castle Town prison, where narration states that it's violently guarding the prison.

In Deltarune, K. Round doesn't turn "good" in the sense of becoming a friendly character, but after being defeated in battle, it remains in Castle Town, acting as a guard for the jail. Despite its violent nature as a beast in the Dark World, it doesn't transform into a benevolent being. 

Here's why:

1. Healing Ability:
2. K. Round has a powerful healing ability that makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to defeat in a normal playthrough. Its health resets to 700 if it drops below that threshold. 
3. 
   
4. No Transformation:
5. While K. Round can be weakened by successfully loosening its crown, it doesn't undergo a permanent transformation into a good character. 
6. 
   
7. Post-Battle Behavior:
8. After the battle, K. Round is found in Castle Town, but it doesn't become a helpful ally. Instead, it acts as a guard for the jail, continuing its role in the game's narrative. 

Just to bite that even queen kinda flips to a good character after defeat. It’s possible I’m missing something.

just the BP claim and the justification do not line up to me. Maybe it’s a fake claim for a character. I can see k round being town but jail keeper makes so much more sense than bp if he was town.

VTl Thoth

fuck it. Trusting my gut

I quickly looked up C/K Round and is this a notable character? Looks almost like a generic enemy.