1990s-2000s Nostalgia Mafia (Endgame)

lmao

DVC

Unlike MU and other places we really don't have a DVC. This is mostly because sometimes we need subs that come from other dead players.

Copying this from the other thread

1) if you didn’t like angle shooting put rules against it or just mod kill me

2) you can’t just give mafia an extra kill for fucks and giggles. Literally punishes a town player for something you messed up. If you wanted to end that. Mod kill me and move on. Don’t give an extra kill and make an unbalanced game more unbalanced.

3) you literally gave them the win by allowing them to get to mylo on dp2.

spin it how you want. This entire game was a series of mistakes and bad choices and instead of just letting it play out. You allow one of the town power roles to die as a response and send us to mylo dp2

I get it’s a learning that but no part of this was town sided. Nor were the choices made correct.

I agree that mistakes were made on the town front here, though the extra NK is just such a huge overcorrection and made the game tremendously swingy, putting town in a situation where we could (and did) end up at MYLO in DP2. That's the biggest issue I have with this because it almost seems like it was here to correct for both the pseudo-mod confirmed players and a pretty big town advantage in roles that would have taken more than one NP to fully exploit.

I get how it ended up like this, but in the future, if there is a slip that results in effective confirmation of a town player, be careful not to award scum a role that dramatically shifts the balance of the game.

Like every choice punished town. I would rather have just been modkilled.

and because of mod mistakes it takes out 1 extra town person for no reason

anyway I’m done bitching. This just wa incredibly dumb and not fun. On to the next one.

This would have been much better if Lunatic resolved it only in private and not in public.

i did message you in private. I had no response for two hours and you had made comments the day phase was starting soon. I asked publicly because I was unsure if I was even playing, I had signed up early but you later asked me if I was playing so it seemed there was some uncertainty as to whether I was even in the game.

Also in what world is this not a swingy game when every role is a power role lol

DVC?

Re: the mafia anti-claim mechanic

Permanently roleblock, meaning during all future night phases? Jeez, that is nasty.

Could the anti-claim mechanic be applied if town fake-claimed?

I have to admit that agreeing with Mikal's win condition was effectively quoting my PM, that I was therefore partially responsible for this game turning into a shitshow, and, if I had been summarily modkilled because of it, I would have been angry but I think I would have considered it justified after I calmed down.

Permanently roleblock, meaning during all future night phases? Jeez, that is nasty.

Didn't notice that, but that basically means we were boned if we didn’t get sufficient info from NP1. As soon as we hit MYLO and everyone had to claim (which I still think should have been a given), we all would have been RB’d NP2, so none of our roles would have mattered even if we’d lynched correctly.

Didn't notice that, but that basically means we were boned if we didn’t get sufficient info from NP1. As soon as we hit MYLO and everyone had to claim (which I still think should have been a given), we all would have been RB’d NP2, so none of our roles would have mattered even if we’d lynched correctly.

Maybe I'm misremembering but there were games on DDO where I recall people not fullclaiming at MYLO unless they had results that were pertinent. After returning for my first game the new meta of a perfunctory mass claim to 'solve' the game gave me whiplash. It's not something that I remember seeing often, it was only done if town was in very dire straits and had no idea what the fuck was going on.

For example, you could say 'due to my role I know that x visited y' without explicitly saying you were a tracker or a watcher or whatever. People would press you for a claim if they doubted you a lot and if that could clarify things like interactions with other roles, but telling which you were was often seen as giving too much information to scum. Maybe @awesome5000 can comment about his site meta, but mass claims do not have to be done every game imo. It should be situational. I think kohai wanted the site to try a different way and get over this crutch but instead they just... claimed and lost.

Dead Villagers Chat

Maybe I'm misremembering but there were games on DDO where I recall people not fullclaiming at MYLO unless they had results that were pertinent. After returning for my first game the new meta of a perfunctory mass claim to 'solve' the game gave me whiplash. It's not something that I remember seeing often, it was only done if town was in very dire straits and had no idea what the fuck was going on.

If so, I don't understand the logic. At MYLO, the only choice is to lynch correctly, and unless we have two clear players we scumread then, I don't see the value in allowing players' characters and roles to remain a complete mystery. If anything, this game demonstrates the "why" of it: you flew almost entirely under the radar as a potential lynch simply because you were a black box. Hell, Mikal even gave you cover for doing so, saying you'd just clam up and not claim or present a convincing fake claim if you were scum, which is part of the reason I went down that rabbit hole about him potentially being scum (I couldn't understand why he'd give you that cover, though from subsequent conversation, that seems to have come down to his tunneling Awesome rather than having a blind spot for you, specifically).

For example, you could say 'due to my role I know that x visited y' without explicitly saying you were a tracker or a watcher or whatever. People would press you for a claim if they doubted you a lot and if that could clarify things like interactions with other roles, but telling which you were was often seen as giving too much information to scum. Maybe @awesome5000 can comment about his site meta, but mass claims do not have to be done every game imo. It should be situational. I think kohai wanted the site to try a different way and get over this crutch but instead they just... claimed and lost.

That would be far more than you gave in terms of information. I'm not opposed to softing in place of a full claim and, depending on the level of detail in the soft, I could understand why someone would do just that. I just don't see the value in leaving anyone as complete unknowns at MYLO. That shouldn't be situational. I agree that there's an issue with massclaiming, and I'm opposed to early massclaims (I've made that stand several times in DP1 and will continue to do so whether I'm scum or town), but I sincerely don't get why you would refuse to get substantial information on everyone's claims when the choice is lynch correctly or lose.

The anti claim would have just caused a mislynch which is fine. I have not seen one with a role anti claim because balance is often something you look at but even the permanent vanilla thing is whatever. I can eat that. The extra kill is what flipped the game. Or at least say, yeah I’ve fucked up enough so I’m giving mafia 2 kills. Allows wf at least the chance to doctor and unsaid not to shoot so it’s not mylo. Unsaid likely shot cus it’s 10 people. We still get 2 more Dayphases and I’m sure wf didn’t think 2 kills were happening so he went cop first.

that is my peeve with all this. All the anti claim role madness is whatever. If you make a choice like that. You have to let people know cus they are picking actions around that.

I’m also largely confused as to why my role existed. Every role could move. I don’t think there is anyone I could target outside of awesome on np1 that would hear me

I do like the way this role works in theory. With some modification it would be fun but whether I was roleblocked or not. I was functionally vanilla

Or at least say, yeah I’ve fucked up enough so I’m giving mafia 2 kills. Allows wf at least the chance to doctor and unsaid not to shoot so it’s not mylo.

I didn't even think to look at their actual roles before now, but I just checked: even if I'd known, REF had a Strongman. So the only surefire way to prevent either NK would have been for Unsaid or Luna to hit one of them. And given Pie's role, I might just have lost it entirely even if we'd lynched REF the following DP, since he could steal roles, and that assumes I wouldn't have been globally RB'd by the anti-claim mechanic.

I’m also largely confused as to why my role existed. Every role could move. I don’t think there is anyone I could target outside of awesome on np1 that would hear me

I think it would've worked on Thoth, he couldn't visit. Still, not a lot of choices.

also just noticed when pressure hit people they had to claim

so we were cooked at some point with anti claim anyway. I would never have thought I would have got hit cus it’s usually tied to full claiming.

Maybe getting mislynched DP1 was a blessing.

I won’t go too into Kohai because I’ve had some bad games recently after not modding for a while, but some of the mechanics were just bastard

By the way if pressed I would have claimed 1x doublevoter and said I was so reticent to claim because it could give us an extra DP if I activated it in the NP and survived when we were at parity.

Tbf you guys played it perfect. With my result on awesome that invalidated wf it was all but over. Never would have guesses all that fuckery happen. All pie had to do was say inno child cus he’s been softing in and the extra kill made it safe cus no dp3

well played to you both

cant take that away from you. Just salty at mod choices and given the awful choices. You guys ran to the moon with it. Played very well

I agree that mistakes were made on the town front here, though the extra NK is just such a huge overcorrection and made the game tremendously swingy, putting town in a situation where we could (and did) end up at MYLO in DP2. That's the biggest issue I have with this because it almost seems like it was here to correct for both the pseudo-mod confirmed players and a pretty big town advantage in roles that would have taken more than one NP to fully exploit.

Issue is that it was modkillable. The rules clearly stated don’t copy paste. I personally thought they should’ve been mod killed, and I advocated for that in the scum PM. But instead of 2 townies being modkilled and another lynched, only 1 townie was eliminated with the extra NK. I agree that it was broken, but so was the fact that Thoth and Mikal weren’t mod killed.

The Luna thing and Max thing, I didn’t really care about. Even with the PM thing, we could’ve at least argued that scum received the town win con, but David went in and interfered, which gave them the mod confirmation. That’s basically 3 players who were mod confirmed town.

Could the anti-claim mechanic be applied if town fake-claimed?

I think we asked this and the answer was yes

Win con has always been something that we can discuss as it’s usually distributed to everyone. I can’t think of a time when this wasn’t allowed on here and I’ve been playing since ddo. None of that is confirmable. Him typing about it is confirmable and that’s a him issue. Along with responding to Luna. You let talk like that go on and don’t touch it. Even I was second guessing Thoth

if anything it’s a reaction test. If that is not allowed. You should clearly state it or just kill me for starting it.

balancing that by giving you guys an extra kill is retarted. Period.

it’s like he goofed and it just tanked the game and punished town for his mistake. I knew signing up for this that it was going to be goofy but just changing how the game works mid game to compensate for a mistake is next level bastard

LMFaO

GGs, onto the next

im Harry Potter

perma vanilla.