Suikoden Mafia

Hmmm... I can do it then.

Damn your elo went into the gutter

Entered it. Btw, don't think we've discussed this, but how do we feel about awarding wins to sub-ins who were already in the game and lost on that wincon? Don't think we have ever encountered it before tbh, but I lost on my TP wincon and then won on the town wincon. I entered it as both and it gave me a win, but seems like it awarded points like I lost.

Ask savant this for how the elo is calculated. But you should have both a win and a loss

Me watching Mikal mine players gleefully for information despite an informed recruitment mechanic: "He's gotta be scum, no way he's so excited for the theme he doesn't care about strategy."

Mikal endgame: "So I was having so much fun with the theme I didn't really care about strategy..."

You would have been my recruit at the end of day 1 if I knew who I could and couldn't recruit.

Or at least my choice. Luna would have had to agree.

Entered it. Btw, don't think we've discussed this, but how do we feel about awarding wins to sub-ins who were already in the game and lost on that wincon? Don't think we have ever encountered it before tbh, but I lost on my TP wincon and then won on the town wincon. I entered it as both and it gave me a win, but seems like it awarded points like I lost.

I think that’s fair. Or just use the original player list and say (WF played for fun)

You didn't have a lot of great choices after Magic's vig, since Vader's activity was sporadic and wylted seems like he'd make for a frustratingly loose cannon scummate (or maybe not, just guessing), but Vader still seems like the better option, unless you were going for a "no one will suspect the newb" thing.

As peeved as I was with Mikal's recklessness at the time, I guess vigging Magic did at least keep a veteran out of scum's hands.

I was actually a perma commuter lol. I just chose to CC Thoth cause it Ascetic is so similar and his Leprechaun claim was garbage

Props

In honor of rule 2: Thank you milady for those kind words

Damn your elo went into the gutter

Don't really care, if it was keeping track of wins throughout all of Dart and DDO it would be much different. I had a list keeping track of it at one point and I remember I had like 60-70 percent wins average back on DDO. Also every single game that has been hosted on Debateart so far has been a swing fest, so it's not the best starting batch of games.

Wins and losses

Don't really care, if it was keeping track of wins throughout all of Dart and DDO it would be much different. I had a list keeping track of it at one point and I remember I had like 60-70 percent wins average back on DDO. Also every single game that has been hosted on Debateart so far has been a swing fest, so it's not the best starting batch of games.

Thats fair

To be fair to myself and also then to discredit myselt

I did calm down this time and then when I did calm down I was almost certain Wylted was second scum

Elo is calculated based on wins and losses, with greater change if the lower elo team wins and bigger changes for each player on smaller teams (it's zero-sum). And yeah, the ranking right now isn't set in stone after this few games. Like, a 10-15 elo difference is actually very little, it only seems significant now because people's elos haven't changed much yet. (Elo changes much more slowly in team setups because the reward is split. I could scale it up, but then it would bounce back and forth a lot, because the small changes are meant to reflect that a team result doesn't say much about each individual player's skill.)

The reason it's not based on anything else is (a) simplicity, and (b) because every player should only be incentivized to play to their wincon, not to make moves that could help their personal "score" potentially at the expense of the team. There's other systems like MVP selection and voting on the top players, but those are somewhat flawed and not objective. They'd make ratings more accurate short-term, but the long term equilibrium wouldn't necessarily match the expected win probability.

You didn't have a lot of great choices after Magic's vig, since Vader's activity was sporadic and wylted seems like he'd make for a frustratingly loose cannon scummate (or maybe not, just guessing), but Vader still seems like the better option, unless you were going for a "no one will suspect the newb" thing.

From what I've seen, you would have been the easiest to work with out of my reasonable choices. That's why I would have recruited you, not because of mechanics or people's reads on you.

As peeved as I was with Mikal's recklessness at the time, I guess vigging Magic did at least keep a veteran out of scum's hands.

And that's also why I wouldn't have recruited Magic unless his role made him the grand jackpot recruitment prize. You weren't watching scum chat in Ranger's Apprentice, but Magic and I were not a happy couple.

Magic and I were not a happy couple

I mean you still won that game.

Good game all!!

I must be getting a bit better at mafia. I caught Thoth and was gonna turbo lynch whiteflame the next day phase. Mikal is def MVP

Tir actually was scum, which is what I started thinking after I found out we were on opposite sides in the end. Also, I was trying really hard to be as townie as possible and hope to kill both myself and the recruiter

I’ll also point out that I was right to call Luna’s reaction to my vote on Thoth a bus / distancing

I’ll also point out that I was right to call Luna’s reaction to my vote on Thoth a bus / distancing

I really, really, really wish he had waited for other people's reactions before deciding whether or not to bus me. People were actually buying it for a moment.

I mean you still won that game.

We did, and Magic pulled plenty of weight, but we won in spite of arguing, not because of it.

Also I did tell thoth multiple times I didn't like the leprechaun claim. I was too lazy to help him find another claim though and he was really confident about it. I didn't know he was going to claim it the way he did, and when he equated his character to liking gold and therefor being a leprechaun, that was probably the worst way to sell it. But he seemed really attached to the claim, so I just let him do him. Should have drew a harder line in the sand on that, I knew that role would be seen as scummy. Most roles in this game were pretty basic, regular roles, maybe absent the brainwash and poisoner, I knew leprechaun would stand out like a sore thumb. Told thoth the same. Oh well.

Poor communication kills. Before I claimed it, I got the sense that you thought the Leprechaun claim was risky but clever and worth doing, and your only qualms were that it semi-CC'd the Doctor you scrubbed from Shining and that you thought the three-person variant might be scummier because it complicated an already unusual claim in a game where all the town roles we knew about were basic.

Rex is right that we should have played DP2 ultra-cautiously so I could recruit. I wish I had known that Mikal was bullshitting about it being impossible for a lore-peasant like myself to know who was recruitable.

Leprechaun standing out like a sore thumb? Well, yeah, he's an Irish midget who wears all green and lives at the end of a rainbow, what were you expecting?

Thoth's main mistake was volunteering information like a claim out of the blue when it's not a policy claim and nobody asked for it. I don't think this is good to do as scum or town. It is an especially bad thing to do as scum when you have a role which is absolutely critical to your team winning and you need to survive the DP to fire it off.

Now that you say that: In the unfathomable world where my Leprechaun claim was real, it probably would have been wiser for me to shut up and keep diverting night-kills while town gathered information.